making a striking anvil

[Duncan M]

I have a piece of 2" plate that I am thinking of making into a striking anvil. the dimensions are 12 1/2" by 7" by 2", and it weighs about 50lbs. I already have an anvil but would like a striking anvil for making tools (hammers, axes, etc...) with a striker, as well as making hardy tools.

A few questions that I have are:

How far from the edge should my 1" hardy hole be?

Is it necessary to weld the striking anvil to a plate , or can the legs be welded directly to the striking anvil?

is it worth adding a pritchel hole?

 

 

[Dabbsterinn]

I'd say 3 1/2" in from the edge is fine, also makes it look nice and symmetrical but that's a personal preference

I don't believe it's necessary to weld the anvil on a plate but I'd say it depends on the smith, I'd have the anvil and the stand separate since I travel every now and then and a striking anvil is something I'd like to take with me.

Another possible benefit to having a separate anvil and stand is if you should find yourself no longer needing a striking anvil or find a better one, it's as simple as taking the bolts out, putting the anvil in the corner or somewhere safe and voilá, you already have another stand ready for it's next purpose

I don't really see a reason to add a pritchel hole in your striking anvil too if you have one already on your main anvil so maybe wait with drilling a pritchel hole since it would be easier to add it on later than taking it out

[pnut]

If you plan on punching hammer eyes on it a pritchel would come in handy. 

The Goshen historical blacksmithing school page on facebook has been making a bunch of striking anvils. You can check out what they're doing. 

Pnut

[Duncan M]

I have decided to put my hardy hole 3" in from the edge of the striking anvil. I haven't decided whether I should weld legs to the plate or have the stand separate, although a separate stand could be nice. 

If I did the stand separate would I have to secure the striking anvil to the stand, or would it be fine with a rim to keep it in place? Also, I have a fair amount of 2.5 and 3" that I could use for legs. Would it be worth using that instead of pipe/tubing filled with sand and oil?

On 12/6/2020 at 3:42 AM, pnut said:

If you plan on punching hammer eyes on it a pritchel would come in handy. 

I have wanted to make a hammer for a while now and am curious about punching the eye. I thought that when punching the eye of a hammer, the slug that comes out would prevent your punch from striking the face of the anvil. Should the punching of hammer eyes always be done over a pritchel or hardy hole?

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning,

There are no 'Striking Anvil Police', you can do whatever you wish!! There is no going to Jail!!! Think how to do it the simplest way, that is the best way. Make a block that can sit above your anvil, then your Punch and Drift will have room and not hit your Hanvil. Work smart!! not Hard. Is that why they call it the 'Hardy Hole'?LOL

Do yourself a favour and lay out your Hammer Handle Hole with a scribe and calipers, center punch for 2 or 3 pilot holes. Drill through from both sides with 3/16 to 1/4" holes, your Slitting Chisel will now stay where you drilled the pilot holes, on center. K.I.S.S. No disappointments!!

Neil

[pnut]

I meant drifting. I need to stop typing while occupied with other things. 

Pnut

[anvil]

I don't recommend "striking" anvils. I believe they are redundant and just take up space. An anvil already is great for striking, has a hardy and pritchel hole.

That being said your piece of steel is perfect if you place it at the bottom of your anvil stand between you and your anvil. You now have a great tool you can use to upset long pieces of steel. I have a dirt floor so i place it in the dirt with the top edge flush with grade. It's out of the way and always there when needed.

[George N. M.]

I have a bench anvil of about 12"x12"x2" which I find very useful when working on small items.  It is handier than having to go over to my big anvil for that kind of work and is higher which is more convenient for work you want to be a bit closer.  It's particularly good for doing things like striking in letters or punching designs. 

Oddly enough, I found it in the garage of my last house when I moved in.  I think I've gotten a lot more use out of it than the previous owner(s).

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Branding Iron]

Anvil - I’ve got a small group of teenagers eager to swing the sledge on some hot metal.  Mind if we come over and use your anvil?  It makes me cringe to think of them around my anvil!  The other benefit to me is working height on my striking anvil being lower than that of my anvil.  Perhaps I’m just used to it.

[anvil]

Actually I've had groups of boy scouts, girl scouts, 4 h'ers and from about 5 th grade on up and had them work in my shop

2 hours ago, Branding Iron said:

teenagers eager to swing the sledge on some hot metal

If you are concerned for your anvil in this case, then they should not be allowed to swing a sledge for basic safety reasons. Proper supervision with  2-1/2# hammer is what's required.

And I'd be glad to have them over any time. 

As for differing heights for striking, when using proper technique for striking, there is no appreciable difference in heights between the two, Contrary to what you may see on the net.

By the way, I'm not saying not to make and use a striking anvil, I'm just giving my opinion on using that fine piece of steel for something you will most likely use far more often for upsetting.

[Duncan M]

I think that an upsetting block would be quite useful, and have a piece of 6" round stock that is about eight inches long that I thought would make a great one. I will bury it in the ground in front of my forge just like you've suggested.

I believe that a big advantage of having my striking anvil lower than my shop anvil would be when drifting. The height added by the drift would make it rather awkward pounding it in. Also, when forging hardy tools, I wouldn't have to worry about drawing the temper on my anvil. 

[Branding Iron]

Don’t know that I’ve ever really noticed / looked for  anything on the net for differences between the two, just know what’s comfortable to me (proper technique or not) and I prefer a shorter height when using both hands swinging a hammer for striking.  Probably has a more similar feel as splitting wood with maul and wedges to me growing up I guess.

Glad to hear your anvil is fine.  I’ll feel better knowing a $20 piece of steel is being hit by someone who has never swung a hammer in my shop!  

[Frosty]

Making striking anvils is a recent fad, MAYBE a couple years old. The name itself makes me sad for the folk who thought it up and perpetrate it. What else is an anvil for other than STRIKING, yard art, boat anchor? 

I think it grew out of folks not being able to find an anvil they could afford but came up with a piece of plate. Not knowing any better they thought the wider the anvil's face the better so welded legs to it and made whatever modifications they thought made it better. 

The physics of impacts and the resistance to movement that makes a good anvil is greatly diminished by laying plate flat, even if it's darned thick. You can tell the difference in effectiveness on either my Soderfors or the 206lb. Trenton if you move the strike zone away from the sweet spot. It's considerably diminished if you strike over the heel where there's still 6-8" of steel under the blow. 

If you have nothing better, one is better than nothing. Laid flat on the ground as an upsetting block is an excellent use for a piece of plate. I have one 2 x 12" x 14" give or take I keep near the forge station to upset on. 

If you want a hardy I highly recommend a portable hole, A piece of square tubing or built up with welded bar or plate stock. Mounted on a stand and reaching to the ground topping out at anvil face level, these are a sweet bit of home built kit. You can move them around, use it for a helper to hold long stock, hold spring tools away from the anvil so you aren't changing them all the time. Leave that hardy in the hole ready for use, it's not within 2" of where you're swinging your hammer, you should be free and clear.

All that is just a little of my reasoning and if he hasn't noticed by time he gets here. Anvil and I are in complete agreement on this one. Don't worry Brother, the spinning helps keep your head stable.

Frosty The Lucky. 

 

[Duncan M]

Hey Frosty,

Having read some of the other posts on striking anvils, I knew your opinion on them. I was wondering when you would comment on this one and sure enough you did. 

Perhaps you are right, and it won't work well at all, but I have already put my hardy hole in it. I will weld some legs on and give it a go. If I find that I don't like it, the I can cut the legs off and find another use for it. 

I do agree that saying striking anvil is a little redundant. Perhaps I should give mine a name to avoid redundancy. Anyone have any suggestions?

As I said, I have a block of steel that I plan on using as an upsetting block. It only has a six inch face but I think that'll be fine.

I am not opposed to portable holes, and may still make one. They seem like quite a useful tool to have. Are there any do's or don'ts when making one? 

[anvil]

Thanks,Frosty for bringing up the fad aspect. Actually this is the whole point. Lol, consider a 2 year fad vs 3000 years of experience for your choice of tooling. 

Duncan, I'm curious, you are really focused on striking. Do you have a striker in your shop on a regular basis? Or do you strike on a regular basis with someone else? If so, you are lucky. That's pretty rare in most contemporary shops, even those who work full time. I am full time and it is the rare occasion that I work with anybody. And when I do, we each have our separate jobs. It's just not cost efficient to have a helper as a striker! That means that the times when I actually use a double jack(two hands on the hammer) are rare. It takes quite a bit of setup to be safe and efficient to be my own striker when I'm alone. 

13 hours ago, Duncan M said:

I believe that a big advantage of having my striking anvil lower than my shop anvil would be when drifting

Well, I'm 73 and other than the last 4 years or so have heated with wood my whole adult life. By choice. Lol, so I'm pretty familiar with splitting wood. The only problem my wife and I had is that she was a "ten chord woman" and I was a "5 chord man"! And I miss it. Once I learned the "proper" form a striker uses, I changed my splitting style to match my striker style.

So concerning your drifting at a lower height. Here's something to consider. I'll use general tools for my example. Height to the anvil is always a swap off. For me, when my forearm is relatively parallel to the face of my anvil, the face of my hammer should  be touching the face of my anvil and be parallel with the face. I set this height to my 2-1/2# daily driver as this is my most used hammer. And most of my work is on the sweet spot or over the far edge.The heavier the hammer the longer it is. So when using my 10# single jack vs my 1-1/2# light hammer neither is quite right height wise. Also, when I use my cut off hardy which I use daily, the hammer is a bit high. And, as you have pointed out, using hand tools on hot iron is another factor as well. My hot work tools are ~14" long. This keeps my hand above the heat of the iron. These are the choices we make.

So, why go high instead of going parallel for these situations? My opinion is that considering ergonomics, I would rather start high and end my blows parallel with my anvil face because it means I don't have to bend my back to make those final blows. My body remains more in the vertical. I believe that in the long run, not bending the ole back is truly a backsaver.

If you start with your anvil, or in your case, your striking anvil, lower, you start more comfortable but end up more bent over with your final blows. My opinion, again, is that this is far more tiring and far more harmful on the ole back.

Why don't I solve these problems by using more than one anvil set at differing heights? Well, more times than not I'm doing all these functions, cut off hardy, hand tools, and flatwork in the same heat. Not only for space reasons, but it's just not time/heat efficient to take those extra steps to go to another anvil. Not to mention, it would really screw up the triangle setup I have between my anvil, forge, and post vice.

Hope this helps.

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

My "striker" is a 30 pound Star hammer. Gotta love the mechanical advantage at 78 year's old.

[Frosty]

Good point about working heights Anvil, we're in sync there too. In my experience I don't really notice anvil height so long as it's not very far from my preference. If I'm using top tools I use a heavier hammer with a shorter handle. This allows me to deliver good force without as hard a swing, coupled with the shorter handle I retain accuracy with the hard blow. This is important as I'm striking above my comfort zone so I adjust with a more accurate but heavier hammer. 

My preferred working height, a little below my wrist, is uncomfortably low for fine finish work, not a lot but a full day at the anvil would have me soaking in the tub. I compensate though, I use flatters and set hammers instead of large scale plannishing. I make spring tools for repeat tasks as well. 

My main tools stay where they are, I make ancillary tools to compensate if there's a problem that needs adjustment. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

lol my striker is pretty wage free too. And they both never talk back. They are my 25# lil giant and my Clay Spencer treadle.

Frosty, same here. I never notice different anvil heights after the first few minutes when working at other shops, unless there is a major difference.

I don't use many top tools. Its too difficult in a one man shop. I do have a number of spring type tools. I have a dimensioned set of spring fullers made from coil spring that go from 1/4" to 1" and some larger up to  2".

My main ones are for tenons as I do a lot of them. They are made of W1-1" square stock and my small set goes from 1/4" to 3/8"" by 16" increments, one from 3/8" to 3/4" by 16" increments. And a few single big boys that do 1",1-1\4"and 1-1\2. I use all of these under my 25# lil giant and sometimes with my treadle. With these and my cut off hardy with one vertical side and one angled, a monkey tool and an adjustable stand, I can make tenons and rivits pretty much to length in one heat from most any sized stock.

[Frosty]

What I do notice about using other folk's anvils is when they tilt them. One of the guys in our club has a long explanation for why it's THE right way to mount an anvil. Your arm is a hinge so the hammer swings in an arc and the only way to  make the hammer strike flush is to tilt the anvil face away from you. It's not a lot, not visible unless you gauge it against something level in the background but a bearing will roll off. 

I work around the anvil, especially when using the horn as a bottom fuller and I don't waste  the steps to use the face. This is really annoying when I have to remember which way to tilt my hammer to make a flush blow. If the darned thing is level my hammer hit's flush no matter the height. Within reason of course.

The top tools I use most are my punches and flatters. I have a number of top cuts but have one favorite that's on the rack, the others are in their bucket. I have a number of top swages I've never used though one collaring swage that's on the rack. I don't need it often but it's irreplaceable when I do. 

Not having anybody to hold or strike for me makes top tools of limited use. Spring tools are easier to make than a help is to find. I make tenon spring tools by welding a spring, to a couple pieces of thick enough square stock, putting a piece of card stock between them, clamping and drilling. Chamfer the "hole" and break sharp edges with the hand drill, flap sander. Takes around 15 minutes, longer if I have trouble finding the right drill bit. They're so fast and easy I have multiples of common sizes, 5"16" for one because it's sometimes faster to make one than find where I put the old one. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[anvil]

Sorry, I was thinking handled top tools. I was thinking more like flatters or half rounds. I have a bunch of hand held. Also a number of curved and straight handled cutters.  I use these handled ones for other than cutting. I hold them at an angle and use them to add details to leafwork for example. 

I don't know why, but I have a few flatters, but they don't get much use.

I've read of those who tilt their anvil. Lol, you might say mine are tilted as well. They are tilted until the face is level and the anvil height matches the hammer arc when both faces are parallel with each other. Lol.