Making a round hole square?

[NateDJ]

In the process of building my anvil I have drilled a 1" hole through the face plate and need to convert it from round to 1" square. The face plate is 2 1/2" x 5" x 24" and is a "good medium carbon steal" (or so I was told) It was at one time the upper portion of a forklift fork so it has a lot of "toughness" and I do not have the facilities to heat it enough to drift the hole square much less to heat treat it afterwards.

If this is something that must be done via a machine shop, I would like to know about what it will cost so I can start saving the money or perhaps try to come up with some other plan.

My alternate plan would be to drill a 1/2" hole 1" or so to the side of the hardy then I could use it for a prichel and as a stabilizer for the 1" hardy by putting 2 shafts on each of my hardy tools that I need to not turn when using them.

Comments / Suggestions / Warnings / Etc. welcome and even requested. Would hate to get this thing built and find it is not going to work!

[jimbob]

drill the web where the corner will be with and 1/8 inch drill then use a cape chisel to cut the excess away and follow up with a file

[ThomasPowers]

Drill a larger hole and weld in a piece of square tubing.

Broaching it square in a machine shop would make buying a commercial anvil new a viable alternative.

You could mill it fairly square; but that deep a hole with a very small diameter mill to get a small radius corner is not a good match!

[racer3j]

If you were able to drill it, then it is soft enough that you should be able to file it square. On myVulcan, the face was properly hard and I went through two high dollar cutters in my die grinder opening it up. So, this should be fairly easy with annealed stock. By the way, the small drill /chisel deal is a good idea- if this plate has not yet been melded onto an anvil body, then it is drill press for the corners and to the vise with the chisel.mike

[Daryl]

I am unsure what the expense would be in Oklahoma, though you might wish try taking it to a hydrojet or water-cutting facility. The water cutting process can be extremely accurate - as fine as .010" on a 4" depth cut or even better depending on the equipment. You pay for set-up time and the time it takes to cut; the finer the cut, the slower the process, the more it costs. Water cutting is used quite often now in work-hardening stels that require a hol to b bored and then susequently tapped for threads.

[NateDJ]

Hmm... I like the square tube idea... took me over an hour to drill the hole and that was with a large 16 speed floor standing drill press set on it's lowest speed and drilling a 1/2" pilot hole. I use Marvel Mystery Oil for a cutting fluid, always have and it seems to work very well and kinda smells nice to.

Is there a reason not to use a smaller hardy? I know I am being lazy and not wanting to go buy a larger drill bit and re drill the hole, but since I don't know the reason for the hardy being 1" I have to ask.

A file on this thing is going to take me longer than it would to build a powered hacksaw that would just saw away at it for a while. O.O Hmmm... what about using a jig saw with a high-speed steel cutting blade and trimming the corners? May be hard to get started but I have some 1" rod that I could put in the hole and then do the 4) 1/8" holes in the corner, using the rod to help keep the drill bit going where I want it instead of off to the side and into the hole. Hmmm... LOL I may end up with a mess on my hands instead of a hardy hole

Thanks very much for the ideas Worst case I can use a file and put it in my jig saw with something on the backside to keep the thing pressed against the corner, and just keep pouring the cutting oil on.

I think I am going to have to get and post some pictures of this thing, It may give you guys a good laugh. Sofar it weighs much more than I can lift by my self and has a very loud ring with a deep resonance behind the ring if hit just right. I think my horn may be a little too narrow and long as it is only about 1"-1.5" thick where it enters the main body but then quickly turns to 2" so it may be vibrating sideways a bit. Having fun building it anyway!

Edit:
Just seen the water cutting idea, never thought of that but I have heard of it. Will check arround I know there are several places here in OKC that does this.

Thanks!

[NateDJ]

Waterjet Technologies
806 W Main Street, Oklahoma City, OK 73106

Says they can do it for less than $100.00 so If I can't find another way I may save my money for that. Thanks for the idea!

[racer3j]

Nate- is the face already on the body? I have a connection that can dig up first quality files designed from the start for jig saws. It would likely take the lives of two of them to get the job done at $20 each. Let me know. I have a one inch broach- assuming plate is not on body, a 20 ton Harbor Freight would do it.pm as needed.mike-- PS- the square tube welded in by a real pro(Jose-Like) is a truly good fix. Or, the square tube can be silver brazed in place, nice and level. The hardy is an alignment feature ; as for pounding, the surface of the anvil ought to still be handleing the load- if not, then sometimes," Goodbye Heel!##%@*"

Edited August 8, 2008 by racer3j

[NateDJ]

Yep the face is on the body, or 1/2 of the body anyway there is a good 2" clearance around the sides of the underside of the hole though. I am going to go home tonight and stare at a while and see what comes to me to do seems to work most of the time. @ $20.00 for a file already made... sounds like the right tool for the job if I decide to go that rout as any decent file the size and quality I would need will cost that already. I am leaning toward the square tube idea but I will have to mesure the tube and make sure I can get the right od/id / insert material. I would prefer to not have to forge every hardy shank to size if it isn't necessary simply due to my current skill as a blacksmith the likelihood of me getting a properly fitting square every time is ... well ... LOL I would just do it on a grinder! :)

[jimbob]

someone had a simular problem here a while back and someone suggested a small belt sander(1/2") sold by Harbor freight you stick it down in the hole after hoging most of metal out of the way

[ThomasPowers]

That was Jose, he has *nice* tools; sigh.

There is no "standard" size for hardy holes; the most common in the anvils I own is 1.5" sq... I've seen: 1", 7/8", 3/4," 1/2" and have a hardy that was made for a 5/16" hardy hole---(probably for a anvil-vise monstrosity).

If you already have a bunch of hardy tools make it to fit the larger of them and thenmake shims to use smaller tooling---a piece of angle iron with the web slit and the legs folded over works well as does square tubing done the same way. my monster hardy holes generally get a double nested sq tubing shim so I can use my smaller shanked hardy tools.

If you don't have any; decide on what you would like to work with and do that!

modifying your tooling to suit your equipment is almost defacto in smithing---and vice versa.

And remember tooling should generally be "loose" in the hardy hole. Wedging is a bad thing and liable to lead to catastrophic failure in traditionally made anvils. (if it's too loose; just run an arc welder bead down the shank and dress to fit.)

Edited August 8, 2008 by ThomasPowers

[Dave Hammer]

If you have a high-amp arc welder (225 amps or larger), it would be easy to "blow" out corners on the hole you have drilled to make it square for fitting in a piece of square tubing. Just crank up the amperage as high as it will go, then use 5/32 (or larger) rods. Draw a box around the hole with a silver grease pencil so you can see where you need strike the arc to make the corners. Strike an arc on the side of the circle, then just push the rod down into the steel a little bit at a time, pushing the puddle into the hole. It will take a lot of rods, but you can make a square out the round hole fairly easy. It will not be neat, but it will work. Be sure you keep your feet away from the slag (or whatever it's called) that will be blown down through the hole. After you can put your square tubing in the hole, weld it in from the top and bottom, then grind the surface flat. Practice the "blowing" on a piece of one inch thick piece before you attack your target project. I have done this many times to make a small hole into a larger one, or to "blow" out an odd shape I needed in plate steel. This is how I cut the hole in my propane forges for the burner tubes.

This will work, and it will likely be the least expensive way to get it done. If you are really good with an arc welder, you might not need to weld in square tubing (not likely though).

Edited August 8, 2008 by djhammerd

[hdwarner]

i made a railroad track anvil , i bored out the hole to accept a 1-1/16 socket
with a 3/4 square drive
i pressed the socket in upside down and flush with the 3/4 inch square drive
showing
i welded from bottom
worked well , somewhere in this forum there is a pic of it , iwll search
chuck

[hdwarner]

this worked out very well

[racer3j]

Twas I/. The HF didn't have quite enough torque to really move metal. The genuine article pneumatic body man's would do better. That is when I hauled out the diegrinder and solid carbide cutters, the last being 1/8th"- goodbye but passable results.

[hill.josh]

you could just use your vise to hold the hardie tools... until you get a "real" anvil if thats what your planning. or you can take a piece of square tube for whatever size you choose and set in a piece of 12x12 reinforced concrete also with a sheet steel box and use that for awhile but thats only temporary with heavy hammering. not sure if thats what you wanted to know but no one seems to have mentioned it

[Finnr]

A nice stump with a piece of plate that has the right size hole on top works great!
Finnr

[Mills]

Hmm A torch? Or a forge that will heat it and punch it square with a couple of friends with sledge hammers. I'll call you tomorrow Nate. I'll be in the shop most of the day.

Just thought of another approach, using a sawzall to hog it out then drift square.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Mills

[Mike BR]

Mill's post made me think -- if you had a bandsaw blade welder (or were good with silver solder) maybe you could cut the corners out with a portaband.

[NateDJ]

Ima try it with a sawzall today, I grabbed 4-5 good blades from lowes last night and if i dull them up i can still use them in my first forge welding experiment/disaster/what ever it turns out to be.
Will post pictures of the results...

[Frosty]

See if you can find the carbide blades for your Sawzall, they'll do it for you. Halbol Fleight has them.

Slow speed.

Frosty

[NateDJ]

Ok after attempting many different suggestions I found myself with an ever widening strangly shaped hole not at all straight or resembling a square... so I put a 3/4" square tube in and welded it solid then ground the surface flat. It now fits a 1/2" square bar great and I hope that is going to be large enough!

Thanks millions for the help and suggestions!