Jump to content
I Forge Iron

Recommended Posts

Hey, I need help with this project. I need a heavy all metallic through kind of staff(bang) to use for wushu training at my school and want to make a gold banded cudgel(ruyi jingu bang) that instead of bands/rings of gold on each end of the pole, I want to weld/inlay some type of thick, somewhat engraved, patterned copper/brass/gold plating over the steel/iron that looks like popped out, shining luck clouds that are wrapped around a clean, straight and solid blackened metal pole. The middle is bare, but as you go to one of each end, it starts with sparse clouds that show the pole underneath, but as you get closer to the ends the clouds become much compact and completely envelop the tips. I need help on how I can get this result(look below at images I cropped). please and thanks.

Adobe_20201029_134805.png

Adobe_20201029_142858.png

Adobe_20201029_142542.png

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking making one that is all through metal for wrist, arm, knee, general core weight endurance/strength training and make a similar beauty that is hallowed out. I just don't know if I should make molds to add the height, depth, and general shape of the luck clouds before engraving them to finish the look, or to just have 5-10 people around me to pour, shape, and hammer this onto the pole without it melting the pole or shrink-crushing the xxxx out of the pole after the clouds cool.

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Birace latino said:

25-27 lbs 5 foot steel rod, its 3/4ths of an inch in diameter

3/4" diameter solid steel rod weighs 1.502 lbs/ft, so a five-foot length should weigh a bit over 7 lbs. 1-1/2" rod weighs 6.01 lbs/ft, so five feet of that is going to weigh just over 30 lbs. 1-1/2" diameter schedule 40 steel pipe (true outside diameter is 1.66") weighs 2.272 pounds per foot, so five feet would weigh 11.35 lbs.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve, I suggested a thick walled hollow pole to try to keep the weight down---and to whistle when swung fast!  I've known a couple of folks who over did things with weights and really messed up their arms/shoulders/backs/etc.  Weight is not your friend with RSI's!

Link to post
Share on other sites

At that kind of weight, aside from the high probability of injury, speed becomes a major issue, and you've got to be beating your hands to death when you hit something, especially if you've been using 3/4". Even with pipe, it's going to hurt.  You're also going to be highly restricted on length, and part of the point of a pole arm or staff is that it's used to keep the other person at a distance, and often has to be kept moving.  The shorter it is, the more you're moving it. Ever watch someone fighting with a bearded axe? It'll make ya dizzy.

 

For staffs, or any hand combat, I'll be the first to admit, I'm badly out of practice these days, but I used to prefer hard wood, old growth, and no kiln dried, for preference - with iron caps, but I've only used one with caps a couple of times.  If you need a bit more weight, you could band it with iron, but if you go overly heavy, at some point you increase the chance of breaking it. Wood flexes, and absorbs more of the recoil.  Imagine the difference between hitting a telephone pole with a wooden bat and with an aluminum bat.

 

Incidentally, when I've tried my hand at it, I found out that I suck at forge welding ferrules around a circular disc to make a hollow iron end cap.  Anybody got suggestions?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why around the disk instead of welding the disk on top of the ring and filing to true it up? 

Has anyone tried a slightly tapered one capped ring and then doing a fox joint to secure it? Perhaps one of the circular wedges used for hammers?

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Steve Sells said:

I have trained and taught Martial Arts for a few years, I think its nuts to use that much weight that way

Absolutely. If you can hit someone with something that heavy your obviously bushwhacking people. An average person can probably move faster than you can swing it. 

Pnut

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Why around the disk instead of welding the disk on top of the ring and filing to true it up? 

 

Because that would be easy, and make a lot more sense? *slaps forehead* 

Pnut, you reminded me of when we used to make barkeep's "friends", basically a Louisville slugger with the end cut off, drilled out, and weighted with lead.  It was easier to store, conceal, and swing indoors, but ya, it was a total bushwacking weapon, and I think they're illegal in many states.  They also tend to break in use if not wrapped in friction tape.   

Cannot emphasize the no kiln dried wood enough.  Part of the reason I'm not allowed to watch forged in fire at home anymore was shouting at the screen every time they take a 4 kazillion layer wootz blade quenched in unicorn blood and the urine of red-headed children (looking at you Theophilus) and attach it to a shaved down shovel handle.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've stopped saying much to FIF, even if Deb is watching. I pick the ringer who's most likely to win in the first 10-15 minutes and maybe perk up when I see seriously poor shop skills. What has me tuning out after a few minutes are all the remixes presented as a new episode. Oooh, previously unseen material!! Uh, stuff the editors left on the floor is a bonus?

I can't agree about the shovel handles though, sometimes that's the height of the contestant's craft. Sure I'd maybe shave down a hammer handle if I was desperate but shovel handles usually have prettier grain.

When I was studying the martial arts, late 60's one of the students kept talking about weighted gloves making strikes so much more effective. Sensei Bill produced a pair of lead shot weighted gloves for that student or anyone who wanted to try them. Everybody was able to block and avoid weighted strikes and land blows almost at will. Something like 6 oz. slowed them down to ineffective, almost defenseless. 

Frosty The Lucky.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bring wootz up to forge welding temps and you may resolution the carbides and so lose the "wootzness".  It can be done; Al Pendray was welding up a Wootz and Pattern welded, stacked chevrons blade one Quad State.  (I had made sure I volunteered as his help for that one...!)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean to make 2 different kind of cudgels, a solid conditioning one and a hallow practice rod. I only need to know how to put raised, thick gold like designs over the bar like openwork. anyone got mold/heat shaping ideas? I have chisels, metal weld glue and dremel to finish the pattern detail and finish. Sorry for the confusion. Im trying to shape the brass/copper over a blackend rod, something like this.

72a84e4c1e89676e66fd6017e2092977.jpg

 

Heres a anouther.

Screenshot_20201101-171308_Chrome.jpg

 

Screenshot_20201101-171621_Gallery.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

You could also start with a piece of brass or copper pipe and do stock removal with the dremel tool, files, chisels, and drills.  If you do that I suggest annealing the brass of copper first by heating it with a forge or torch or even a wood fire and quenching it in water.  That way the metal will be as soft as possible and less likely to crack or split.  I suggest mounting it to the shaft with pins or rivets.  Glue will fail on an impact.  Alternatively, slightly taper the shaft so that the working end is slightly wider than the metal decoration and slide it on from the bottom.  This is how pick heads are held on their handles.

As others have said, you probably don't want the decoration to add much mass which would slow down your blow.  You don't want a mace.  Keep it as thin as possible for decoration only.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...