bcoop Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Hey guys was going to pick your brain about a press I purchased recently from a machine shop that closed down. It started its life as a 50 ton Carolina press....that’s had modifications. It has a separate hydraulic power pack made up of a 10hp Baldor 3ph motor & paired w/ a Eaton pump. I will attach some pics of the parts...could use some help w/ the ID of the the various parts & their capacities!! One issue is the motor...I don’t have 3 phase and am not really interested in getting a converter...so was considering replacing motor w/ a 5 hp single phase. I’m not sure on the brand/specs of the hyd cylinder?? I will attach the spec sheet for the hyd pump. Am just wanting to marry all the parts together in the best way possible to get the most out of them when using them on a future press build. Thanks Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 What do you want to know? Do you wonder what replacing a 10hp motor with a 5hp motor will do to performance? I'm not going to search part numbers or contact the manufacturers for you. I'd planned on mounting a 10hp Honda gasoline engine to replace the 3ph motor on a hyd punch I shouldn't have bought. Do you have specific questions? We like to help but you need to do some of your own footwork. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcoop Posted August 21, 2020 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 Thanks Frosty, more than willing to do any of the leg work that I need to. Need help identifying the cylinder (brand?). What will changing to the 5hp motor (maybe larger if possible??..I’ve got a 40 amp circuit that will be dedicated for the press) do to performance. Do I need to stick to a 1750 rpm motor when pairing with this specific pump (specs for pump detailed in one of the pics in original post)? Is the valve I have (pic in orig post), one that will stay in a certain position when you let off or will it return automatically? If this was dropped off at your shop...how would you use it to make yourself the best press possible?? Also, I am assuming this pump is a single stage pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 If there is no placard or ID # on the cylinder you know more than we do. What do you need to know about it? If It survived use under a 10hp driven hyd pump and you're going to reduce it to a 5hp system, what possible concerns do you have? Look at the spec plate on the motor, it'll tell you what circuit capacity it requires. The spec plate on the pump will say if it's 2 stage. I can hardly see it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcoop Posted August 21, 2020 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 No spec plate on cylinder...it is stamped T12607?? The ram is 2.5” & cylinder is 4.5”. I’ve attached the specs from the pump in original post?? I don’t see anything placard that indicates whether it’s single or double. What will changing to the 5hp motor (maybe larger if possible??..I’ve got a 40 amp circuit that will be dedicated for the press) do to performance (speed, tonnage, etc) Is the valve I have (pic in orig post), one that will stay in a certain position when you let off or will it return automatically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, bcoop said: The ram is 2.5” & cylinder is 4.5”. WRONG. If a 4.5" cylinder had a 2.5" ram in it, the ram would flop around like the clapper in a bell. You REALLY need to learn something about hydraulics and I don't mean ask people on the internet, learn. Right now you don't know enough to ask questions that mean anything and repeating the same meaningless questions over and over won't do you any good. Your questions are so disjointed they're frankly gibberish. Do you REALLY need to ask what cutting the input power in half will do to performance? You're beginning to frighten me here. After our few posts the one thing I know for sure, is I can't take what you THINK the pump specs are, for granted. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings here but you really need to know something about the subject, hydraulics is too dangerous to guess at. Call the local hydraulic supply or repair and tell them you're trying to put an old hyd press back in action but don't know enough. NO, do NOT ask them your questions, they won't tell you do do anything but bring it in! Ask them to recommend a book about learning hydraulics. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcoop Posted August 22, 2020 Author Share Posted August 22, 2020 Wow...not gonna deny that I’ve got plenty to learn. Sorry on the terminology...4.5 bore, 2.5 rod. You’ve really got a way with words, not much of a teaching spirit in ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Asking poor questions on the internet is NOT the place to learn about something as inherently dangerous as hydraulics. It's FAR too dangerous for me to attempt to TEACH you about it. I WAS willing to help you learn where to look but I'll not bother you again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcoop Posted August 22, 2020 Author Share Posted August 22, 2020 I don’t THINK I KNOW what the pump specs are...I absolutely know, as I simply took the numbers off the placard on pump (V10 1P7P 1C20) and found that pump online to get the ACTUAL specs for that pump, which are provided in my original post. I don’t think me asking questions like asking if someone can help me identify the specific Prince model I have on this press should “frighten you”!! SURELY you can provide me some helpful information based on what I’ve provided instead of simply attempting to belittle me and insult my intelligence. Like I said earlier, I won’t deny I’ve got plenty to learn...but come on brother!!?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Is there a full moon out tonight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Good Morning Oops, What Frosty is politely trying to say, you need to learn about Hydraulics and Mathmatics. 4.5 inch diameter piston at 2000 psi does not make a 50 Ton press. Surface area of a circle is pi x r (squared). 2.25 x 2.25 x 3.1416 = about 16 square inches. 16 sq/in x 2000psi = 32,000psi = 16 Ton push on the end without the ram, if it is 1 sq/ in. Deduct the surface area of the base of the ram for the push back pressure. Use your pencil and paper and write all the facts down on one sheet. Cutting your motor HP in half, may or may not drive your pump to the pressure you think you have/need. If you think Frosty is short with you, just rethink how you can ask a question after you have gained some knowledge. It is not our job to figure out your problems. Good Luck with the project. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcoop Posted August 22, 2020 Author Share Posted August 22, 2020 Roger that Neil...appreciate your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Oops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Is the 4.5” the bore diameter or the outside diameter? You may want to contact Eaton to see what motor size they recommend for that pump. If they system was modified, the current motor could be overkill or to weak... David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcoop Posted August 23, 2020 Author Share Posted August 23, 2020 Yes...outside diameter. Thanks David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Griffin Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Then you have a 4" bore cylinder. A lot of modifications have been made if this used to be a 50 ton press. At 2000 psi you can expect about 25,000 lbs. force. You should be ok with 5HP. You will still get the pressure and flow from your pump to handle anything you will be doing at home. EDIT. Cutting your HP in half is also going to cut you work load in half. You really need a hp per gpm to get full capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikej Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 I have a similar frame as yours,I dont have the cylinder and pump like you,but my main point here is I believe you will need to consider if you want to squeeze hot steel with this and not press bearings and straighten shafts,you will need guides for whatever union that you will fit into the end/ram of your cylinder,and like my frame I will be lessening the width of it being i wont need the extra side room for billets.The thinning will also stiffen the whole deal,but Im no scientist.Surplus center has technical info that can help with matching conponants,and sells them ,I dont know how to put a link up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcoop Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 Definitely not using the existing frame, will be building my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 bcoop, Frosty spent most of his professional life working with hydraulics and has been enormously helpful to me in my attempts to get my hydraulic press working. I highly recommend you get used to his somewhat idiosyncratic communication style, because there's a wealth of knowledge behind it, just waiting to be shared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Good Morning, If the outside diameter of your cylinder is 4 1/2", it is not a 4 1/2" ram. To make that ram into a 50 Ton Press, you will need more than 7500psi. Be smart and safe, either use a much larger cylinder or use 2 hydraulic cylinders. Pi x R(squared) x pump psi is the Form-U-La. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcoop Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) Thanks JHCC...I will do that. Thank you Neil....I didn’t word my original post very well in many ways. I wasn’t trying to say that the press in its current set up is a 50 ton press...I was making the point that it started its life as a 50 ton Carolina press (per the placard on the frame). I wasn’t really sure what capacity is, as it sits now after having its current cylinder and hyd power pak added. I’m working on educating myself on hydraulics so as to not come across quite so ignorant on the subject. Thanks again to all who’ve chimed in with assistance and words of wisdom. Brian Edited August 28, 2020 by Mod30 Remove excessive quotes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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