Will I damage a 4.5” post leg vice with a mini sledge ?

[Jon108]

Hi everyone,

I have a few post leg vices, and I would like to forge 1/4” mild steel on the heel or anvil jaw ( not moveable ) with a mini sledge hammer to make a blade. 
I do not want to damage any of them. 
Two are mounted to a wooden work bench in my basement workshop and the other is mounted to a portable stand in my shed. 
Any advice is greatly appreciated. 
 

[ThomasPowers]

Why forge on the vise(s) and why mild steel?  Blades usually do better with steel that can be hardened!

Have you reviewed the "improvised anvils" thread for better things to forge on?

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/52308-a-collection-of-improvised-anvils/

Now given that you have to ask; it probably means your skills are still being learned and so damage is much more likely than if you had decades of experience.  Please Don't!

 

[Jon108]

Thank You Thomas,

You nailed it on the head, I am very much still a beginner in forging anything, including knives. 
I have a good amount of mild steel, and I know it is not the correct steel to use for a knife, but I am still learning the basics. 
I will not forge on the post leg vice, thanks to your advice. 
once I develop some experience, and can forge the shape I am going after, I will move on to 1095.

I will just forge in my shed where I have post anvils and RR track vertically mounted.

The only anvil I have in the basement shop is a lowly cast iron anvil from HF OR GRIZZLY!

I know it will break, so I have never tried using it

Thanks again,

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Forging mild will help with stamina and hammer control; but please remember you are training yourself to forge mild steel. When you go on to higher carbon steels you will find that they work differently and have a different forging temperature range.  I had the reverse issue as I came into blacksmithing through bladesmithing and so I tended to work mild too cold and stop too early making my forging rather inefficient.  Heating real Wrought Iron up to it's proper working temp took a veritable act of will as the voices in my head would chant "You're going to burn it up!"

I often suggest people starting out bladesmithing get an automotive coil spring and cut it down a diameter to get a dozen to a score of ( pieces all the same alloy and forge and test all the blades forged from it as you can also learn heat treat as well.  (And if one has "beginner's luck" you end up with a knife and not a shiv.)

[Glenn]

58 minutes ago, Jon108 said:

The only anvil I have in the basement shop is a lowly cast iron anvil from HF OR GRIZZLY!  I know it will break, so I have never tried using it.

So you want to use a mini sledge on a 4-1/2 inch vise instead of an anvil, because you know the anvil will break?

How many continuous hours at a time do you plan on swinging that mini sledge?   

You can break anything if you try hard enough.  Anvils are designed to be hit on, but are not much for clamping and holding.  Vises are designed for clamping and holding and are not so much for being hit on.  They make both anvils and vises in several sizes for different uses.  Choose the proper tool for the intended purpose.   

 

[Jon108]

Thank You Thomas and Glenn,

I appreciate the advice

[JHCC]

4 hours ago, Jon108 said:

I have a good amount of mild steel, and I know it is not the correct steel to use for a knife, but I am still learning the basics. 

Use your mild steel to forge beginner's projects: hooks, pokers, nails, brackets, etc. You will develop a LOT of hammer control while you learn the basic skills of drawing out, upsetting, punching, twisting, etc. That will put you in a much better position for when you do jump into bladesmithing.

[Marc1]

The only question I would ask is ... how mini is your sledge and why use it instead of a hammer. 

I understand if you want to forge a boat anchor ... or a two foot machete out of a truck leaf spring  ... yes, you need the kilos in your hammer, but for a knife? and in mild steel? You can do with 2 pounds cross peen hammer no worries. 

You can forge on a leg vice, a rail or a cheap anvil providing you are sensible with your choice of hammer. The choice of hammer is mainly in accordance to the job at hand. A test at forging a knife with mild steel is probably just a step further than a hook for a hat. i don't see the problem. The only problem is your proposed hammer and it's disproportionate size for the job. Not the vice or anvil nor the fact that it is a blade. 

i was looking for a cartoon picture of a very large hammer on a very small vice but couldn't find it ...

Have a read at this old thread

 

[Jon108]

4 hours ago, JHCC said:

That will put you in a much better position for when you do jump into bladesmithin

Thank you JHCC,

I will take your advice, that makes a lot of sense. 
I have been watching a lot of blacksmithing basics with Alex Steele. 

3 hours ago, Marc1 said:

i was looking for a cartoon picture of a very large hammer on a very small vice but couldn't find it ...

Thank You Marc1,

Very funny !

I think I got to liking the mini sledge when I used it to make square heads out of hex heads in stainless steel 304 1/4” lag bolts. 
It went so easily and worked out nice, and I surprised myself on my success on my first attempt  

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Is your "mini-sledge" actually a hammer like a drilling 3 pounder?

[Jon108]

I don’t know much about hammers.  This hammer belonged to my Father in law.  He worked at National box company  in the 1950’s, keeping the machinery running.  He also worked on cars.   The hammer has a short handle and a wide sledge hammer head.

I will post some pics as soon as my Iphone is working again.

i have a new cross peen hammer 1 1/2 - 2 lbs I also have a round hammer that is a bit lighter, which I like very much.  I did my best to dress them both. ( in a wee suit ) lol  

[ThomasPowers]

It's hard using subjective descriptions.  I have short handles on hammers from about 2# to around 8#;  which would be a "mini sledge"?  (I've got ball peens down to about 2 oz and up to 3#. )

When I was at the scrapyard last Saturday; their scale was on the fritz and the owners grandson was checking me out "by guess".  He asked me how much I thought it weighed and I said "under 100 pounds---I move anvils and so my "light" calibration is shot!"  We agreed on 20#, US$4.

[Frazer]

Is it an engineer's hammer? Like this?

[Jon108]

Shorter hammer head( drone head to head in a straight line ). 
shorter handle as well. I will get a pic and some measurements

I am now considering the correct ratio between the hammer weight and the anvil weight. 
Thanks to the great advice given on this forum. 

[ThomasPowers]

When working directly and only on the sweet spot you can use a pretty heavy hammer.  If you work over the unsupported areas of the anvil I would, if anything, go lower than "suggested" weights.  (Especially with older anvils that have forge welds attaching the horn and heels.)  Look at some of the "striking anvils" being used with quite large sledges.  Often to allow work that might be abusive to a London pattern anvil.

[Frosty]

Pictured is a 3lb. Driller's hammer, Estwing is a top shelf brand, below is $22 at Home Dept I find them at yard/garage sales for a dollar or two and brand X hammers at  Walmart for about $10. I start new folk off with a 32oz. driller's hammer. Do a web search but don't let your browser autocorrect your terms to "Hammer Drill" those are entirely different tools. Search "Driller's Hammer". The shorter handle gives you much better control, especially when you've developed good hammer control, I use mine for close or precise work.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Jon108]

Thanks Thomas and Frosty,

Yes, that is the hammer I have been referring to as a “mini-sledge”. 
 

[ThomasPowers]

The shorter handle also allows you to use a heavier hammer more  effectively than using a longer handle would---until you build your stamina and skill.

[Jon108]

Thanks Thomas,

Maybe that is why it has a really nice feel to it. 
 

[Frosty]

Ayup, drillers hammers short handle puts the weight of the head closer to your hand so it doesn't feel as heavy making it easier to control which makes it feel better. Having good control feels better than not being sure.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Jon108]

Thanks Frosty,

Amazing  how much a difference it can make, with the right hammer.