Grizzlyman Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Greetings everyone! I’ve used a charcoal forge for many years now, but have recently decided to upgrade to a gas forge for efficiency, what are the recommendations that people have for either buying a forge or building a simple one, I do not have access to a welder right now, only have basic shop tools, I would like it to be durable, and also have the ability to work longer pieces. I mostly make knives and swords. I would prefer to run it off of bbq propane tanks. thanks! -Caelan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Welcome aboard Caelan, glad to have you. When you ask about a budget gas forge without saying what your budget is you want jr. high student or Bill Gates budget, recommendations? What do you have for shop tools? A welder isn't necessary to make a propane forge, you can use: sheet metal screws, nuts and bolts, pop rivets, etc. People have been joining metal thousands of years longer than they've had "welders". Do you have or have access to a drill press? About the durability thing. The liner in a propane forge is a wear item they WILL wear/burn out. Propane flame is very chemically active as are things like forge welding fluxes. If you want a liner that'll last a long time just the refractory is going to cost a LOT. Give us some details and we'll be able to give you some meaningful suggestions and help if you decide to build. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzlyman Posted June 3, 2020 Author Share Posted June 3, 2020 Thanks! I’m hoping to stay below $500 I do want something that is high quality and will last a long time, I have a drill press, bench grinder, sawzall, hacksaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 You might want to edit your post and remove the quote to stay on the moderators good side. The quote feature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzlyman Posted June 3, 2020 Author Share Posted June 3, 2020 I’ve been looking at forges from both chili forges and forge master as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Chili makes a good forge. There are others as well. There are okay to not bad forges under your budget enough to upgrade them some. Some need help for safety reasons. If you decide to build you need to decide some basics. Volume and shape determine the size and number of burners. As a rule of thumb one, well tuned 3/4" Naturally Aspirated (NA) burner will bring 300-350 cubic inch forge to welding temperature. The closer the chamber is to monodimensional the better, a cube or sphere. close is good enough. Long and narrow with one burner will have a hot zone under the burner with temp falling off with distance. Make sense? This poses a problem building a propane forge for the first time. You don't know what you need, like or what will work for you. It really sucks to build a permanent forge and discover it doesn't cut it for you. I know I have a few dust collectors and the two I currently use aren't right either and I've been making the things better than 30 years. What I do to prototype a new forge is model it with a "brick pile" forge. Basically use IFBs (Insulating Fire Brick) to experiment with size, shape and burners till I get what I think I want before I start cutting and welding. My last forge ain't bad but I made it for a burner I'd never used and it's OK. The next one will be better . . .I hope. I strongly suggest you expect to replace your first forge in a year or so. It won't hurt as much if you don't think you can build one forge to last forever. Iforge has a couple of current propane forge threads with I don't know how many threads discussing the hows and whys of forges and burners. Lots of seriously flawed ideas and experiments so you can learn from other folks mistakes. Those are "Forges 101" and "Burners 101". Virtually anything you might ask has almost undoubtedly been asked and discussed repeatedly. There are a number of bladesmiths in the local club who use a small about 160 cu/in clamp together brick pile forge, a couple sell high end blades regularly. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Do you plan to use this forge for forge welding? None, a little, a LOT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 17 hours ago, Frosty said: What do you have for shop tools? A welder isn't necessary to make a propane forge, you can use: sheet metal screws, nuts and bolts, pop rivets, etc. People have been joining metal thousands of years longer than they've had "welders". Do you have or have access to a drill press? Furthermore Welding forge parts together is a big mistake for most people, because it is necessary to have welded long enough to understand where welding will cause distortion in parts that need to be able to move--but no longer can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Yes I have sometimes wondered if I was the only person that when I bolted my gas forge to it's cart did it so it can expand and contract without stressing things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Nope you are not the only one. That's why our forge is held to the cart by a tray with one wing nut & bolt, also makes it easy to take the forge off the cart for whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 the most forge you can buy in your price range is a Diamondback. They are adequate and long lasting. If you want any wow-factor with the money you are dealing with, you'll have to put in a lot of sweat equity, and learning time, to build your own forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzlyman Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) Thanks, are diamondback forges higher quality than chili forges? Edited June 4, 2020 by Mod30 Remove excessive quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 No, they aren't. However' the major difference is power and efficiency. Chilly forge contacted me when they were still in the design stage of a new forge, and received permission and consultation to employ my burners in their forges; they also chose to make their forges oval designs, to get the most use out of the interior space, while maintaining adequate air cooling around its exterior; at that time only one other person sold oval forges; and they were "special order on request." So, Chilly Forge went far out of their way to build the best forge that the owner could conceive; they succeeded brilliantly, and the rest is history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzlyman Posted June 4, 2020 Author Share Posted June 4, 2020 Thanks, I’d prefer a forge that is lined with a material rugged enough that I’m not dealing with insulation dust in the air for health reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Forge linings have to accommodate both durability and preventing heat loss. You could line a forge with solid castable refractory, but that would be a major heat sink. You could line it entirely with insulation, but that would have the dust problem you're trying to avoid. Current best practice is a rigid shell (usually sheet metal of some variety) with two inches of ceramic fiber insulation (rigidized with colloidal silica for safety and strength) and an interior flame face of high-alumina castable refractory. Lots of threads in the gas forges section about how to do this easily and affordably; take some time reading those over. Also, where are you in NH? I get up that way pretty often on my business travels (when there isn't a pandemic, that is), and I'm always happy to visit with other smiths. The New England Blacksmiths Association is very active and has a fair few members in NH; you should link up with them if you haven't already (a number of them are active here on IFI). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Also, their are recent improvements in refractory fiber boards, but so far, they aren't widely available on the retail market; very frustrating!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzlyman Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 Thanks JHCC! I haven’t connected with them yet, I live in Southern NH near Manchester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dally Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Just saw this post, I am in a similar situation. I have all of my parts for a venturi burner, I have an old flushed out propane tank and 4 walls of a square forge from 1/8" sheet metal. I have a good portion of 2" Kaowool but no rigidizer and have been looking at a refractory from lowes to help firm it up and fill the forge body in order to get a better heated area. I am also in NH, up near Rochester. Let me know what you decided on in terms of your forge build, I would be interested to see how it worked out. Cheers, Dally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Rigidizer for Ceramic Fiber Kast-O-Lite 30 Plistix 900F Kiln Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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