karcher.dc Posted February 16, 2020 Author Share Posted February 16, 2020 Haha... I may have put a 1 between the 5 and 0 that isn’t really there?... hard to tell, but if the number is 15067 then it puts it in the 1894 range if I’m not mistaken? Not that it matters, but it’s really interesting to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Hay Budden made what I lump into 4 generations of anvils with each having a different main design.. WW1 changed much of the manufacturing in the USA. After this we start to see blacksmiths turning to other professions on a more regular basis as the writing on the wall was becoming clearer.. Gen 1 is a forged wrought iron anvil with a steel plate Gen 2 is the start of the Rhino horn and these are the ones that are forged out of Crucible cast steel top to bottom but have wrought iron feet welded on at the waist.. Usually hollow on the bottom.. They used a continuous wrought iron rod welding method from what I can hypotheses on. These have a high face height compared to the cutting table distance. Jacked up. Gen 3 also used the Rhino horn and forged from 2 pieces just as Gen 2 but now the distance from table to face is shorter and it almost looks like they had someone else take over as main foreman because the change was across the board. Gen 4 was just before they closed their doors and they started to look at forging a solid 1 piece anvil from steel.. From the looks of the anvil from the store because I haven't seen any updated photos.. it looks like a Gen 2 anvil.. Gen 3 anvils start with an A in the serial number.. 40 years ago.. All the smiths I bumped into wanted Peter Wright anvils.. At they were #1 no question.. I on the other hand read about the Hay Budden anvils with a solid steel top half and it made better sense from an anvil owners stand point.. This I will explain in the next couple of years as the shop comes up to speed. I was lucky back then because Hay Buddens rang so loudly that not very many people wanted them.. Of course I was very poor at the time but they were always going for much less money then Peter wrights. Once mounted and bolted down solidly like and anvil should be.. They don't ring at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BartW Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Is it me or does that Vulcan look "modified" ? Like someone trying to re-weld a face plate to it ? There's too much room between the logo and the top, and the sides are way too clean. Even the top of the logo has grind marks, and the hardy hole looks like it has been filed. I'd take the other one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karcher.dc Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 so in response to JLPSERVICESINC, I think mine may be a gen1 based on your description. See the attached images. First, it seems like there is a weld seam about 3/4” under the face, which would explain a hardened steel face on a wrought iron base. See the pics of me pointing that out. Second was I cleaned up the serial number, and it looks more like ‘4506’ now? You be the judge... there is also a 3 stamped on the front under the horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 If you can take a photo so the anvil is in full frame.. Also is the anvil hollow in the bottom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karcher.dc Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Sorry, I meant a direct side view.. But that looks like a first Gen.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karcher.dc Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 i can get one after work. but I agree with you based on your initial post. I also believe it is pre 1900's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Good deal. Glad you're happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 As I recall Postman said that some of the early ones had a very light indentation on the bottom and many of those were worn almost flat and hard to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 Serial # 4506 would put it at 1893 according to AIA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I love the evolution of the Hay Buddens.. really within a fairly short time you can kinda see the thought process take hold.. I often wonder which ploy they were after.. Again being a history nut, and speculations.. the early wrought anvils with steel faces all pretty much were the same.. Nearly the same thickness in face and personally have not seen any larger ones but up to about 200lbs or so. So, mainly made of of a lot of forged sections which wrought iron as we know welds really nice and easy. the face plate being slightly easier with wrought iron too. Huge labor factor.. then you move into the 2 piece design which I know a one piece of steel is more durable and longer lasting with no chance of faceplate separation.. but also the design change overall. The waist is now made thinner as is the tail section.. they also forged the bases from bars layered and cut on the anvil all stacked up and the base was "HOLLOW". Anyhow.. My point was were they simply trying to save on labor. (They had some labor disputes) or was it something to do with the welding of the crucible steel that lead to the narrower waist? If the waist is small enough and welding temp wrought iron bars are put on time and time and time again in quick succession the anvil would not have to go back in for another welding heat and can be applied pretty quickly.. the other thing that is pretty cool is they started with blocks of steel and forged out most features while using a butcher tool.. At least on all the ones I have seen.. Anyhow.. Its just cool.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karcher.dc Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 I am very happy in this purchase, and like you i think the history with them is awesome! I cant believe the shape it is in for being 120+ years old.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtG Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 It's awesome learning about them, of that one can be sure! I have 2 USA-Civil-War Era Peter Wrights and one is in excellent shape, the other.... well, it needs some love but is still a thing of beauty. Just, ragged beauty haha Oldest things I own, so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I can send you a rock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtG Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I mean, I do have coal, that is likely in the millions of years range. Let's just say, the oldest man-made things I own hahaha I have some lovely quartz, granite, and obsidian, if I had to guess I'd say the granite is the oldest thing in my possession Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Depends if it from a Precambrian granite or a much more recent one, it's still being made... Lots of coal is from the carboniferous period 359 to 299 million years ago. My oldest man made item would be a roman coin as it predates the Native American projectile points I have. For a lot of smiths their smithing tools may be their oldest possessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtG Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I believe roughly 1.5 billion, maybe as young as 1.1 or old as 1.8. Granite from a scree pile near Quandry Peak. Had some schist from near my hometown that was supposed to be roughly a billion years old. Dunno what I did with it. Had some cool mica formations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Locally we range from Precambrian to a lava flow that occurred after folks were around to watch it---about 5000 years ago. My house and shop are on unconsolidated Rio Grande sediments---when we were digging the site for the shop pad it ranged from a boulder that the backhoe had to pull out to one corner where we pushed a steel rod around 6' deep in pure sand. I'm atop the Socorro magma bubble and a dozen miles from where they guess the next volcanic eruption in NM might occur. My wife is not amused at my enthusiasm to watch it if it occurs while we are still around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtG Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I'd drive to see that. I thought it was cool to pass by Capulin and Sierra Grande on our way to CO in December. I hadn't realized just how volcanic NM's history was, let alone recent. What a big small world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 The local Malpais is out HW 380 between San Antonio NM and Carrizozo NM; if you ever come out to see the Trinity Site, (open only 2 days a year, not due to radioactivity; but due to the fact it's a working missile range...), it's just down the road. Valley of the Fires, a BLM Recreation area, is there. Warning I tell folks that you can break an ankle just driving through it looking out the window. I once went over the satellite pictures to see if there were any interesting hidden areas that didn't get covered by the lava. All I found had visible trails leading to them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 You can watch an eruption live if you'd like. There's almost always one going here. There's one on the Aleutian Chain that's been erupting for years and there's a fishing village within sight. It should show up in a search. If you don't need 20k' ash clouds and pyroclastic flows from a safe distance type view. The Wrangle, St. Elias range is a large shield volcano system that's always steaming and puffing ash clouds, it's good viewing. Across the Inlet from Anchorage are a number of active volcanoes, St. Augustine has erupted 3 times I believe since I've lived here, Mt. Spurr ashed us but good right after Deb and I got married. Mt. Illiamna keeps promising a good eruption but only steams and spits a little bit of ash now and then. There are a LOT more though and who knows which will be next. Nova Rupta was a recent good one before my time though a good one to visit. Lots of tourist, bear viewing and fishing tours of "The Valley of Ten Thousand Smokes." I run into the ash layer about 18" + down when I dig here. Caldera eruptions are pretty darn exciting you know. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 It's being able to sit on my porch in a rocking chair while watching one...Down where I used to live there was a Maar which is a more unusual volcanic item. I can't outrun any pyroclastic flows nowadays and my arm can't return serve any bombs. A nice basaltic flow will be fine. It's being able to sit on my porch in a rocking chair while watching one...Down where I used to live there was a Maar which is a more unusual volcanic item. I can't outrun any pyroclastic flows nowadays and my arm can't return serve any bombs. A nice basaltic flow will be fine. Hmm casting basaltic anvils as a hobby.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanglediver Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 On February 16, 2020 at 5:35 AM, pnut said: I OBJECT!!! Your honor this was not entered into discovery. How can I defend my client if evidence isn't shared with the defense in a timely manner? Sustained. Counsel will refrain from further leading of the witness. You may continue with questioning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karcher.dc Posted February 22, 2020 Author Share Posted February 22, 2020 Update- got the anvil setup this morning, got it sitting on a solid red oak stump and leveled it, removed bark and oiled up.. face of the anvil sits exactly 30” from the ground and is super solid.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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