Interpon Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 hello, newbe for 14 yo wanting to forge, knife, play.. yes read a few stickies i just got done teaching him basic welding by gas and mig. Actually built some bricks and angle iron..bought a hose to 25 pound propane tank biggest torch tip bottle but flame is not enough. bday. Coming week he's still into it..learning.. i would like to buy from a usa quality forge and basic tool recommendations please..even where to get decent anvil. I'm afraid no choice but non usa to start due to price.. my thought on forge was two burner. Link removed per TOS i love forums and want to support vendors and forums.. please advise and thank you for time and recommendations.. Pic of what he built..mig welded new skill tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 A good place to look for improvised anvils at little or no cost is A collection of improvised anvils If you are looking for a London pattern anvil then The new standard for anvils The gas forge sections will give you a bunch of good information. Burners 101 and Forges 101 As you already have a forge look into the Frosty T burner T Burner Illustrated Directions As to tools, you need something to hit with, something it hit on, and something to hit. Yes it is that simple. Look up and use TPAAAT. You will need to look up the Indiana Blacksmith Assoc. and go to the meetings. You will learn more than you can ever imagine in just a few hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 best way to go is to build the forge yourself and buy the burner. For the forge body just use K26 firebrick. 6 stacked will give you a 4.5x4x9 chamber. you can order these from the internet for 10 or so each cut a hole and stick in a 3/4" burner. you can buy one with good reviews for the 50 range. then pick up a decent 0-20psi regulator for around 20 and you got a forge that is able to forge weld. just don't get flux on the bricks they will melt like the wicked witch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpon Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 Thank you all..working and looking..open for more.. fyi i got 2000 degree bricks from menards..no good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Is it insulating firebrick or non-insulating firebrick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpon Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) Don’t know, bought this Links to commercial sites are not allowed per the Terms of Service. if i go down continue to build or buy existing is my decision now or get burner as suggested or build...but tough to find specific one to get or buy as is assembled.. honestly cost seems to be similiar..yes can learn but im ok to learn to this point and cut looses and celebrate experience..and buy assembled..like the one in first post or specific recommendations or supporter of forum.. i will see if boy will check out indiana blacksmithing..cool thanks all burner i tried bit hose extension seems to limit flow..and probably not hot enoigh Edited January 23, 2020 by Mod30 Commercial link removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 are they hard or soft? if you can dig your thumb nail they are probably okay. however at only 2k they are going to crumble to nothingness quickly morgan k26 (IFI sales them on there sales page that's new haven't been on here in a year or two) hold up better then most brands because of there mix and the 2600 rating makes them a much better choice. Also IFI has them for 7.50 so you save 15 over my estimate. the burner is the hardest part to make yourself. I recommend buying that until you understand the science. look on etsy for a 3/4" burner and make sure the seller has good reviews. If you do that you will be fine. The rest you can get a lot cheaper then buying it and "making" it realy doesn't take much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Hard firebrick do not make a good gas forge body; but they do make a good material to put hot pieces on to cool or to rearrange your tong grip; so not a waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpon Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 Noted thanks..never bought on etsy..never heard of it will check it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 As to the air/fuel torch; it looks like a dual-fuel model (propane and propylene). This is plenty hot enough--for its size; which is way too small to serve your purpose, even if you could use it in a forge, without losing a third of its heat from induction of excess secondary air drawn in through the burner's portal, or over heating its brass flame nozzle, which was never intended to be mounted within heating equipment. Could it be used successfully in a coffee-can forge? Yes, but it's not smart for a newbie to try for that tricky burner balance. Don't lose the air torch;; it is a very good model (I have two). You guys are plenty smart enough to use it that way a little further down the road. Normally, I quickly agree with anyone who decides to buy their burner, rather than building it. If your son is good enough to learn to gas and TIG weld, He would learn a lot buy building his burner, too. Box forges, like yours, work very well with "T" burners, which are easy to make. BTW, well you encourage him to learn mirror welding too? That makes a great trick for his bag of reasons why future bosses should keep him around, and send the other guys down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpon Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 xxxxxxx now i have to look up mirror weld..! he did mig and gas..don’t have tig..yet.... my training is brazing leading and gas mig body trade school a LONG time ago.. correct on torch..i am going to get one off ebay...and still need to adjust bricks etc..and reweld shape if needed..it also was not as powerful on 25# tank as a throwaway tank so i think 12 ft hose has restrictor no regulator. below is what i shall get unless major objections to start Commercial link removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpon Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 I am seriously looking at this anvil vice...many used rock well 50 hardened multi use..can get around 250..not sure of origin..have the boy fabricate a stand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 That vise is not suited for blacksmithing. It is only good for light work and any hammering on it will probably break it. As Glenn suggested go to the Improvised Anvil thread for much better ideas on an anvil. I picked up a 110 pound of steel off a bulldozer for $35 U.S. and it works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpon Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 Thanks..yup studied the links..scanning craigslist, ebay etc...of course literally they just ripped up railroad tracks behind me should have sliced one.. im still looking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 one of the best sources I have found in my area for Anvil Shaped Objects. Are water cutting companies. I just picked up a 18" long 6" diameter 4140 drop for $30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 At the risk of being redundantly redundant: http://www.marco-borromei.com/fork.html Note if you go to a forklift repair place make sure you tell them you want a damaged fork that will be cut up to make an anvil from it. Most shops worry about liability of folks reusing such things for load bearing. I find them in the local scrapyard for US 20 cents a pound where I am at now. Found the one in that link in an industrial spoil pile bulldozed off a bluff face along a river. One thing about that vise: look at how much solid steel there is from the face to the base---most of it is a hollow that gives you no advantages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Interpon: Check the yellow pages, not the internet version, the real paper version. Looking online is often more hassle than it's worth. There should be a HVAC supply or service shop in your area, it gets cold enough furnaces, boilers, etc. need servicing. A service company will have dumpsters of ceramic blanket refractories they are required to throw out rather than use. Fire codes require they use new material off the roll when they work on furnaces so all the trimmings get tossed. A supply company WILL carry fire brick suitable for high temp applications . . . furnaces, not fire places like Menards, Home Depot and the like. Ask about Morgan, K-26 Insulating Fire Brick, (IFB) forget about lesser fire brick. One of the biggest benefits of using the telephone as opposed to the internet in virtually ANY form, is the telephone puts you in direct contact with a human being who may not be able to help you directly BUT they will know someone who can or get you one business closer. Believe me the office receptionist knows more about the nuts and bolts of any company than the owner let alone an add company like a web search hit does. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpon Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 I did call one scrap yard great ideas! Thank you all. boys bday next week so Ebay burner and NC tool 70 pound anvil just purchased..as bday present..should be in business next weekend..will update.. bricks next as advised....but may just dissolve the current ones to learn.. time to scrounge for railroad spikes they just ripped up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Make sure you get written permission from the RR to go on their property. Federal law prohibits trespassing and removing RR property without it. Would hate to hear you got arrested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpon Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) Ya actually its my backyard, and found out the trail going in I actually own to the center of tracks, and of course they ripped up and sold the iron...a month ago.. another part of history gone to have a bunch of people now in my backyard. Edited January 25, 2020 by Mod30 remove excessive quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 By all means use what you got while you wait on what you ordered. the bricks you show will eventualy crumble to dust a few things you can do to extend there life while waiting on the new bricks and using these. Purchase a furnace cement. Imperial is the brand you can get at most big box retailers. It's bout 5 a pint. you will need at least two pints. Be sure you get the black paste and not the mortar mix. spread it on and let it dry. It's crap as a kiln wash but it works as a bonding agent for about 10 hours of run time before it crumbles to dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 By all means don't wait till you have THE stuff to start working. I'd slide the sides in till they're touching the brick on the floor though. It'll reduce the volume your torch/burner has to heat and not having the pockets on both sides will promote good turbulence in the volume. The pockets will make dead zones and flame shadows to no good purpose. Good grief cheap bentonite clay kitty litter makes much better kiln wash than mortar of most any kind. Mix it to spackle consistency, butter the brick (spritz with water or just dip in in a bucket) and spread the bentonite paste and let it dry over night. Fire it to low red and allow it to cool then let it rip. As an experiment I've put globs of tooth paste consistency bentonite clay in my yellow heat forge to see what happens. It foamed up as the water boiled out and actually made an insulating refractory glob. My forge doesn't get hot enough to vitrify bentonite but it does "fire" well enough to make a decent flame face and bentonite is uneffected by welding flux, I've removed the glob, rolled it in flux and returned it to the forge a number of times. The glob is only thoroughly coated in flux and gets sticky when hot. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binesman Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 frosty knows the chems better than I could ever dream so go get some kitty litter and have your boy make a set of tongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Are you married to the idea of using gas? There's no rule that says you can't have more than one forge. You could build a jabod in the morning and have all afternoon to forge while you're wanting on your supplies. I built a mapp gas forge similar to that before I started to research forges and by making the top and bottom with just one brick placed lengthwise for each instead of two placed like you have them will decrease the forges inner volume and make your torch have less to try to heat up. Look for a stainless steel nozzle too. The tip my torch came with didn't last long. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpon Posted January 26, 2020 Author Share Posted January 26, 2020 Thanks for replies. gas to start yes, in city. Will play and yup not married to one..ill let him explore and probably make a smaller new one brick too...yup stainless..i hope i ordered.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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