Help with this Anvil/aso?

[Matthew2]

I have been working on a harbor freight Russian cast steel anvil (aso) for several years waiting for something better to show up. I finally picked this up at an estate sale without knowing much about it beyond having an anvil like shape, being heavy (I don't know what it weights but it took four strong men to lift it into and out of my truck) and having great rebound compared to what I have been working on. From those characteristics it is indeed a step up and the price was right. I did a little more research trying to get some history about it. I found a longtime neighbor of the previous owner and got more details. There used to be a steel plant not far from the estate. As the story goes, their machine shop needed an anvil and formed this out of a solid steel ingot. This explains what looks like torch cut marks along the sides. It appears the bottom plate is welded on to provide a foot for mounting. There also appears to be a welded repair to the face and edge. The steel bulges a little on the side just below the repair. As the previous owner was a long time welder I am hoping the repair is done correctly. From what I could find out it had been repaired many years previously which suggests it is durable. I have already done some forging on it just to try it out and the repair seems to be holding.

Now for my questions. I am looking at building a stand for it and I am unsure how to deal with the skirt that has been welded to the base plate. Should I try to build a stand that fits inside the skirting, or set the anvil on the edges of the skirting, or remove the skirting and build a stand to suit? I am leaning toward removing the skirting but have read so many posts about not messing with the as purchased state of an anvil that I am a little head shy about removing it. The stand it came off of looked like a rail road cross tie set in the ground vertically outside his shop. I don't want to imitate his base because I would like to have it on a base set on top of the concrete inside my shop. I am most certainly interested in recommendations for a base for this thing.

My next question has to do with the repair. It left the edge pretty rough. Should I just grind it with a flap disk to smooth and soften the corner hoping the repair will hold up or should I seek out somebody to help me repair the repair? I am leaning toward smooth and soften the edge and use what I can seeing as there is so much usable steel on the anvil.

I have also contemplated taking a flap disk to the sides to remove the  torch marks. Any thoughts?

Thank you in advance for all your suggestions.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome to IFI...have you read this yet? https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/53873-read-this-first/

I wouldn't worry about the torch marks or the edges just yet. It looks like who ever built that anvil did a good job. You could radius the damage on the edge then just use it for a year before doing anything else but pound hot steel on it.

I would build a tripod stand to fit inside the base plate. Bolt it together and "go to town hammering".

[Marc1]

I like the torch marks on the sides. It looks like those rock cliff cut with drills and blasted out. Part of the anvil history. It is what it is, no point making it nicer.

You will buy another one eventually and sooner than you think. 

Enjoy it as it is.

[Kozzy]

Are those torch marks or did someone run a hard-facing or plain weld bead up and down the sides and grind them down a bit?  Looks a little like that to me.  Of course it could also be a plasma cut---back in the 70's when my Dad worked for U.S. Steel, that branch had a "point to point" NC plasma cutter that'd do 24"+ thick material.  The crew would sometimes cut big stuff  (drops from billets) into shapes just to play and see what they could do.

My gut wants to torch off that flange on the base plate...but it's not really hurting anything.  Just build your stand to insert in that recess.

The bad edge...gently round it with a flap wheel in an angle grinder.  Don't get too picky or aggressive...just knock enough off that it isn't likely to crumble more and consider it a "feature"--which it actually is. I 'd probably slightly round a section of the good edge too, while leaving the rest fairly sharp just so you have options.  If the situation warrants, you can also sometimes get a variable radius when "cleaning" a bad edge which increases options even more  One mine, one edge varies from about 1/8" to 3/8" radius over about 8 inches of edge.

[Matthew2]

From what I understand the anvil did come out of a US Steel plant that shut down about twenty years ago. The previous owner was one of the men who made it. The lines are easier to identify as torch marks around where the horn meets the body because there are a couple of errant gouges. My biggest problem with the flanges is that one of the flanges was not welded on the edge of the plate but rather bisects where the mounting holes are, making it so I can only use the mounting holes under the horn.

As far as buying another anvil sooner than I think, I can only hope. I started with a rail road rail. I looked for an anvil for 8 years before I finally broke down and bought one of the harbor freight anvils. It was actually my wife's Christmas present for me for our first Christmas together. It took me another 10 years to find this one. It seems anvils are not very plentiful around here and anybody that has one thinks they are made of platinum. I have found a couple that were worth getting but I have always been beaten to the deal by somebody else frequently by just minutes. It doesn't help that I do not have a lot of discretionary income. We have two sets of twins and the medical bills to prove it. We will not have our second set of twins paid off for several years. 

I did not expect such quick responses. Thank you so much. This web site has always been such a huge resource for me. I am grateful that it exists. I haven't posted in the past because everything I have had a question about in the past had already been covered before. Thank you.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Matthew, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the gang live within visiting distance. We keep our eyes open for available smithing and other tools so you won't be the only one looking in your area. Hmmmm?

Actually the Russian cast steel anvils Harbor freight used to carry weren't all that bad, they were actually reasonably hard. The shop built anvil will work alright and I like the name. "Pete the Anvil" has a lyrical meter to it don't you think? That upside down pan Pete has to put up with for a foot gives me the willies. At a minimum do as suggested and build a proper stand that fits under it. Better still torch that thing off and THEN build Pete a proper stand it'll perform much better.

What's happening being mounted on a sheet of steel supported around the edges is it's loosing considerable energy flexing the plate like a drum head. You want inelastic rebound under it, not a trampoline.

Don't try to grind the face smooth it'll just dent up again, don't worry about it, work around it or use the texture. Dress the edges as necessary, that's a good idea on a couple counts, Safety is #1, smooth and lightly radiused will be much less likely to chip and flying chips are little jagged short range bullets. Radiusing the edges also gives you features that make producing forged features much easier, setting shoulders is a common operation and having a rounded corner to do it on priceless.

Here's hoping you come up with some simple to make forged items that everybody in your area just MUST have and you can afford the twins(s?) until you can get them jobs and take a break.

Oh yeah, there's another thing about Iforge, we LOVE pictures!

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[JHCC]

I like it! Cool look, fun story!

I would second (third?) the recommendations above to make a stand that fits inside the skirting. In fact, you can take advantage of the holes that are drilled in the skirting to help hold the anvil in place: make your stand (wood, metal, whatever), bed the anvil down on a layer of silicone caulk (which gives great hold and helps deaden the ring), drill through those holes into the base, and then bolt or screw the anvil to the stand for a little extra hold.

[Matthew2]

You are right about the Russian anvil not being that bad. I use mine quite a bit. The face on mine seems a bit mushy in that it will show any errant hammer blow. It just makes me more aware about hammer control and making sure I don't hammer things when they are too cold. My biggest issue with the my Russian anvil is I have one of the models with the diagonal hardy hole. Every time I use tooling in it I worry about breaking off the heel. I wont be getting rid of it though given its sentimental status and its portable weight makes it handy for demonstrations. Besides, the twinses will need something to learn on. I have been trying to figure out the best way to render the plural of twins as well. Twins(s) seems like the plural is optional. Twins's just shows ownership. Twinses is not a real word but probably only because two sets of twins is so rare.

"Pete the anvil" does indeed have a lyrical meter to it. The other name on the anvil not visible in the pictures is Dick York.

Thanks for the suggestion on adding a location. I was aware of that being handy I just had a momentary lapse in memory about adding it.

 

[ThomasPowers]

Begs the question:  What did you do to deserve the "double Parent's curse"?  My Stepdaughter has twins---instant karma! I've already given them a froe and this year for Christmas a drawknife...

However You could build a stand of VERTICALLY oriented dimensional lumber and slot it for the flange, or cut off the flange with an angle grinder and a cutting disk and PPE!  On the cheap?  I used to scrounge nice wide 2x lumber from around the university when classes ended and folks trashed their water beds, I have previously posted where  I made a bunch of stands from oak lumber used to floor a horse trailer. The trailer ended up at the scrapyard and they had to remove the wood to sell it on. I asked and they gave the wood to me for free!!! Bolted them together using guard rail bolts from the scrapyard too...

 

[JHCC]

[Matthew2]

Twins run in my family. I thought we had pretty good odds of getting twins so I asked my wife how she felt about twins when we were engaged. I hadn't considered the potential of two sets. It turns out twins run in her family too. The older set is five the younger set just turned one. I averaged 3 1/2 hours of sleep a day for the first six months. I am up to about 4 1/2 to 5 hours a day now. 

[JHCC]

Progress, not perfection.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

How much does Pete the Anvil weigh? Love the story and history of items others have crafted.

[Rojo Pedro]

I like the horn. How does it ring?

[Reeltree]

I see leaving the welded on base plate and grinding off the side plates.  A vertical grain wooden stand and use the holes in the base plate to lag it onto the stand.

[Matthew2]

I wish I knew how much it weights. It exceeds the capacity of all the scales I have in the house. I would have to take it some place to weight it but that would require three other guys to be as curious as me that would be willing to help me load and unload it a couple times. Someday I will make the time and put together a posse to find out how much it weights. When I do I will stamp it on the side for future generations. For now it suffices me to know that it is extremely heavy.

The ring on it can only be described as complex. It changes depending on where you tap it. Depending on where you tap it, the ring will vary in volume and pitch. It is almost as if the anvil has two or three dominant resonant frequencies with harmonics that amplify each other or cancel each other out depending on where you tap it. Toward the heel it becomes a lower pitch  ring that almost sounds clanky with a piercing high pitch over note that has more sustain. In the dead center of what I would consider the sweet spot of the face all the sounds cancel out except the faintest ring at a high enough pitch that it is barely audible except perhaps by dogs. Moving two inches in any direction creates more dual tone rings that emphasize the mid tones and highs. I don't know if the complexity is a result of the base plate being welded on or from the shape or manner of construction of the anvil. I had even wondered if the sound was partly because of the striations on the side of the anvil which is one of the reasons why I had considered grinding them off. (The biggest reason why I considered grinding them off is because I have been known to hammer on the side of my anvil in the past but curiosity over whether it would change the sound of the ring did play a part.) Finally, I had wondered about the structural integrity of the anvil but that has become less of a concern because the anvil practically throws hammers back at you with more zeal than you originally put in. It has made me curious about what kind of steel it is. I would expect you could choose almost any type of formulation of steel you wanted for building a custom anvil if you worked in a steel plant.

I did have another question about my anvil. I had heard somewhere that some old time smiths would sometimes test out punches and chisels on the feet and base of their anvil as they would make them. When I first got my new anvil I thought all the holes in the base were inclusions in the steel or something but on further inspection I realized they were the result of random punch marks. If it is true that the old timers would do this, this anvil has made hundreds of punches and chisels. The feet and base are riddled with punch and chisel marks.

[ThomasPowers]

Yes it seems to have been common to demonstrate a chisel or punch to a customer to impress them. (as the body of an anvil is usually dead soft---not so impressive to other smiths...)

Feed stores often have scales that will weigh an anvil and a forklift to handle it.  

[John in Oly, WA]

Can't you use that fulcrum method to weigh it? A board with a block under it at one end and the bathroom scale on it at the other and put the anvil on the board a quarter of the distance from the block end, then (what?), read the scale and multiply by 4? I don't remember the details exactly, but something like that.

[JHCC]

 

[Matthew2]

I looked at the link for determining the weight of an anvil. If I use a conservative estimate of the volume of the anvil based off of blocking it up into shapes that are easy to calculate I come up with about 400 lbs. I know this figure is low because I didn't calculate the weight of anything that was an irregular shape. 

If I use a plank with a fulcrum and me for the counterbalance I come up with about 500 lbs. The plank was flexed heavily over the fulcrum and I thought for sure it was going to snap but it held.

If we split the difference and say Pete the anvil weights 450 lbs. + or - 10% we will probably be pretty close.

Someday I will have more discretionary time and actually weight it out of curiosity.

Funny, I would have estimated heavier after trying unsuccessfully to lift it.

Thanks for the motivation to at least make a guess at it.