Double Horn vs Square Tail Anvils

[Starlight Tools]

Hi, I am new to this site, I am a welder, millwright, machinist by trade and I a trying to determine the advantages or disadvantages of the two major styles of anvils, the two horn or the square tail.  

Been pounding for years on a section of RR track, but I am hoping to move up to a real anvil and trying to determine which style I should be looking for.

Thanks

Walter

[ThomasPowers]

Depends on what you need to do!  Is a dump truck or a hybrid a better vehicle for me?  Hard to answer that without knowing what I need it to do...

[John McPherson]

The square heel is typical of English anvils used for horseshoeing and general work, many European countries prefer the tapered square heel for architectural work. There are examples of each style found in all of the western world. Most major anvil makers provided both in their catalogs. 

I can work on anything, but prefer a double pike. I recommend trying as many types and brands as you can when visiting others shops and attending hammer-ins.

[Marc1]

Best shape for decorative blacksmithing is souther german pattern. 

But it's all very subjective really. 

[Starlight Tools]

Thanks guys, my only real anvil right now is a record anvil that is about 4-3/4 inches long  and really more of a paper weight.  I remember that in 1973, we were getting ready to move and my dad decided to try a flotation test on the anvil that we had rather than move it with us.   Unfortunately, it did not float and I have wished ever since that he had not done that, but I was only a young pup then.  Ever since I have kept my eyes open for a used anvil, but one has never come up. 

I have a few leads now and want to make sure I will get something that will be usable as I doubt I will get another opportunity to get one.  Then again once I actually do get an anvil, maybe it will attract its friends and I will be able to get it company.

Meanwhile I will keep doing research on the different styles of anvils, so any other comments gladly accepted.

 

 

[Marc1]

I would start diving where you dad sunk the anvil. 

[swedefiddle]

Starlight, Starbright

Why put all the road blocks in your way!! Pick up some drops/crops and weld them together to make your own Anvil. I have a 350 lbs homemade Anvil. The bird in your hand, beats all the other birds in the bush!!! When you want Honey, why wait for the Bees?

Neil

 

[Marc1]

1 hour ago, swedefiddle said:

When you want Honey, why wait for the Bees?

I agree ... just go to the shops and buy it

[stevomiller]

Being a millwright, you have the prerequisite skills, and access to equipment and probably left over materials, to fab a nice serviceable anvil. Id still keep looking for that great deal on a used one, or saving for a new one, but in the meantime make do!

We have a great thread on Improvised Anvils, another fascetiously called High Tech anvils, and then there are other individual threads of individual fabricated anvils. 

If you can find some 4-5” square stock, minimum same length as cross section, you have a start. Same cross section but 10-20” long, stood on end so you work the small square face is a very efficient anvil.

Id love to find a scrapped train axle, about 8” diameter and 4’ long. Put two 6” straight edges parallel and opposite each other, cut at a slope with an abrasive saw. You could cut it in half and make two, shape the second face with about 6” radius and use it for moving metal faster with a rounding hammer, then rotatable and work on your flat anvil to finish forge and true things up.

[Starlight Tools]

11 hours ago, Marc1 said:

I would start diving where you dad sunk the anvil. 

That has been considered, it is in the ocean right at the mouth of a river, and that was 45 years ago.  Not sure what condition it would be in and how deeply buried in silt.

 

11 hours ago, swedefiddle said:

Why put all the road blocks in your way!! Pick up some drops/crops and weld them together to make your own Anvil. I have a 350 lbs homemade Anvil. The bird in your hand, beats all the other birds in the bush!!! 

Currently have a few sections of rail road track that are making do for when I need an anvil so finding one has not been an urgent matter, just trying to educate myself on the different styles of them and their uses.  Both of the ones I am currently looking at are double horned and in the 275 lbs range.  So wanted to make sure that I would not kick myself afterwards if I went double horned instead of square heeled.

Walter

 

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning, Walter

You will find out, that there is no such thing as an optimum style. You will find that there are different applications for different shapes. The knowledge is being able to see which is better/best for any application. Most situations will aim you toward your comfortable equipment. The difference is, allowing yourself to adjust your direction of Tooling for the job at hand. You will find an Anvil's function, is not restricted to it's top face.

Neil

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

19 hours ago, Starlight Tools said:

I am new to this site

Welcome... I always suggest reading this thread, especially the part about putting your location in your profile as so many answers are dependent on where in the world you are located.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/53873-read-this-first/

 

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Walter, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the gang live within visiting distance.

Anvils are just something you beat things on, the more experience you have the less important the shape. That's not saying we all don't have preferences and there are jobs that specific shapes and features don't make easier. 

My go to anvil is London pattern and lighter than many if not most think best. My larger anvil is also a London pattern it's just not my favorite. I've used all sorts of field expedient anvils around a camp fire in the AK. bush. An old engine block makes a lousy anvil, it's too flexible. A nice fine grain boulder works a treat I like Ultramafic they're generally very fine grain, dense and and hard.

Not suggesting you go pick a boulder either.

My real suggestion is you find the local blacksmithing organisation attend a meeting or two, maybe hook up with a local smith and try their equipment before you start making decisions.

This is another good reason to have your name in the header, folks aren't likely to invite you to gatherings if they don't know you're close and interested. Hmmm? You'll also pick up the craft MUCH faster with a little one on one time with an experienced smith.

As a little bit of warning if you haven't picked up on it already. Ask two blacksmiths a question and you'll get a bunch of answers and discussions about them. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

It’s worth noting that while a double-horn anvil does have its advantages, you can always make tooling to fit in the hardy hole of a London-pattern anvil that will give you the same functionality.

In other words, if a good anvil of either type comes your way, don’t hold back waiting for the “perfect“ example of the other kind. Not knowing where you are in the world, it’s hard to say which one will be more common where you are. 

[Starlight Tools]

I am located somewhere close to where Noah landed the ark.  Much of the tooling in this area is about that vintage.  A lot of mining in the early years, but it has never been much of an industrial town, and is now known more for tourism. 

I have upgraded the header to reflect my location which is Nelson, BC.  This is a very artsy town and there is actually a blacksmith program at the local college.  Matter of fact they used that shop in the last season of Amazing Race.  As such, we have a vacuum in this area where it comes to blacksmith equipment.  All the students are gobbling up the used equipment as soon as it comes available.  Many have stated that they have had to travel great distances to get deals on anvils.

I operate a Power Tool repair shop, and offer welding and machining services.  I have over the years done some blacksmithing, and I supply abrasives and machinery to a lot of the local blacksmiths, including the college blacksmith program.

I am in the process of starting to build a new shop and will have more room, so I would like to increase the size of my smithy area.  As such I have increased my efforts to find an anvil and at this time I believe I am just going to order in a new one.  I did the same to get a milling machine, searched for years for a used machine, finally just ordered in a new 10x50 vertical knee mill.

Thanks all for the word of encouragement.

 

Walter  

[Starlight Tools]

Here is my current anvil

 

[Marc1]

2 hours ago, Starlight Tools said:

I am located somewhere close to where Noah landed the ark. 

So are you in Canada or Turkey? 

[Frosty]

I sure understand living in a blacksmithing tool poor place, it's all rare and expensive here. More guys are just buying new, folks selling old tools want antique prices and in too many cases are getting them. Most of my equipment came up the Alcan or air freighted. It's cheaper to air freight than have it surface freighted. Here anyway.

I'm not familiar with the anvil you have but not being Chinese or Mexican it's probably good quality. I'd have to do a rebound test to be sure, it's pretty small but it'll be an excellent bench anvil. 

If you find a good old anvil, please don't be tempted to machine the face to "restore or repair" it. A pristine face on an anvil isn't necessary and any steel you remove is years or even decades of useful life can't be replaced. Post some pics here please. Some anvils do need repair and we'll steer you straight. 

Ah, a big knee mill. I miss having access to Father's shop, no mills but an otherwise pretty complete machine shop in support of metal spinning. 

Take a look at the improvised anvil threads here, there's plenty you can do without spending the lucre on a London Pattern anvil, especially with access to a machine shop. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Luckier than the members here that live in Hawaii or Iceland!   I knew one Canadian fellow building a smithing school up there who used to come to Quad-State to buy anvils, postvises, tools as it was cheaper for him to travel than to try to buy them locally (and a much greater selection).  (As such will CANIRON be on your side of the country anytime soon?----Ouch! looks like you missed it as it was in BC this year and so 3? years to wait before it  should be there again IIRC)

[Starlight Tools]

On 10/8/2018 at 11:25 AM, Frosty said:

I'm not familiar with the anvil you have but not being Chinese or Mexican it's probably good quality.

The Record Anvil is 620 Grams, or about 1-3/8 lbs.

I purchased two of them when I worked at Home Hardware, so that would have been about 30 years ago, I gave dad one and kept the other.  I know that mom still has dad's proudly displayed with her tape measure collection, he passed away in '97.

These were a promotional item promoting BenchMark Tools, which was a Home Hardware House Brand.  I have never used it as an anvil as I have a better chunks of RR Iron and countless blocks of steel that I can bounce a hammer off of.

 

Marc1, it must be a rumour that Noah's Ark landed in Turkey, considering the age of many of the tools that come in for repair here, I'd swear it landed here in Canada.  Sorry to the purists, yes I am in Canada so really we are on the other side of the world from Mt Ararat where Noah is supposed to have landed.  

Walter

[ThomasPowers]

I once had a friend who worked at a gasket manufacturer in the "custom gasket" part of the company---used to get gasket "scrapings" from old tools to reproduce.  They mentioned that one regular customer was using a compressor that was so old that the head bolts had been laid out by eye in the casting; it was originally US made but was still doing it's job down in South America. They made a tracing of that one to make future replacements easier...

I was at the fleamarket Sunday and one vendor wanted what I considered too much for an adjustable wrench as it was "100 years old".  I told him I was a blacksmith and didn't hold with them new fangled tools....Nice old wrench but not 100 years old; probably the 1930's.  I wanted to make the next size larger twisting wrench  than the one I twisted a RR spike with----*cold*!  I think he gave me the "gringo price".

[Starlight Tools]

So I had a little puppy follow me home today.  Hoping it will attract more, LOL

Went with the Peddinghaus 275 Lbs Double Horn Anvil.  

Walter

[JHCC]

Good choice. 

[Frosty]

1 hour ago, JHCC said:

Good choice. 

Ditto John. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Starlight Tools]

Thanks Gang, it was narrowed down to two choices, the Holland Anvil or the Peddinghaus.  The Peddinghaus was considerably less expensive after freight and import expenses were taken into concern.  Ordered Oct 9, and it was delivered Oct 27.  Which considering one inquiry I had made said they were on B/O in Canada until early spring caught me off guard with how fast it actually arrived.

JLP,  yup the Hardie and Pritchel holes both line up with the base of the anvil so it is not possible to pass long stock through them,  so I will have to see if it is worth the effort to modify the base or not.

Walter