Gustav Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Hello! I'm a new blacksmith and I want to start mass producing small products like bottleopeners, hooks and what not, to sell. The problem I'm having is the amound of time and hassle it takes to keep a solid fuel forge (which I have at the moment) going. I'm also tired of how filthy it is with having a forge like that. All I want is a small, simple, clean forge that can heat up multiple small objects without me having to worry about overheating and destroying them. That's what attracted me to gas forges. The way I see it, is that you only have to fill up the propane tanks once in a while and replace any firebricks from time to time. Then it's just a matter of throwing in a bit of lit paper and opening the burners to start the forge. Am I wrong here? Is it more complicated than that? On the other hand, I'm a bit worried about needing to have a well ventilated space. I have my forge placed underneath a chimeny in an old foundry and at the moment, I'm using very large pieces of coke (which we have basically an unlimited amount of) that my father uses when he's melting brass in the foundry itself. This fuelsource is very difficult and annoying to get going which just makes me want a gas forge even more. I've tried breaking it into smaller pieces but it just turns into dust and extremely small shards which both can't be used in the forge and is dirty and unhealthy. Do you think I should buy/build a gas forge? I'm thinking about 1 burner, but what dimensions am I limited to then? What are some examples of products I can't heat up in a gas forge with 1 or even 2 burners? So: how big does it need to be and how many burners do I need? Again, this is mainly for heating up smaller objects that will only be hand forged by me. I do not have a striker / power hammer so I won't be forging hammers or axes any time soon. And if I wanted to forge something bigger that either won't fit in the propane forge or is too thick then I could just use the old solid fuel forge. I hope I'm posting a reasonable topic. All help is very much appreciated! Kind regards, Eophex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I don't recommend using fire brick inside the forge because it is a heat sink. You will find that the problem with a gas forge is that it will work you to death. You won't burn metal and you don't have to tend the fire, You can put two or three pieces in to the forge and when you take one out to forge put another in. As opposed to a solid fuel forge you don't get a break to tend the fire or turn the crank. Let me know if I can help you. Wayne Coe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Eophex said: Do you think I should buy/build a gas forge? Build one. 3 hours ago, Eophex said: how big does it need to be and how many burners do I need? Take a look at our forge we built. A single burner works fine in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 One 3/4" burner is plenty for a 20 Lb. propane cylinder forge; place it in the middle of your cylinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 17 hours ago, Binesman said: Single burner. Read the pinned frosty t burner post and make a 3/4" t burner. For the forge. Google waynecoe artist blacksmith. His website has designs for a forge more than big enough for your needs and he sells everything you need at a reasonable price. Any finished burners you recommend? I think it's crucial that I buy one that's finished. I live in Sweden so if I'll build a burner from scratch I need to know the measurements in millimeters. Do I just calculate what it is in mm and buy whatever measurements that's the closest or are there any good blueprints/tutorials using the metric system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Have you asked Sveriges Konstsmidesförening The Artist Blacksmith's Association of Sweden www.konstsmidesforeningen.se While you have missed the 2018 annual conference; the member pages show where members are located Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 I just input "inches to mm" to take my choice of online calculators. Part differences are only a few millimeters difference. The only critical measurement you will encounter is the bore diameter of the MIG tip you will use for a gas jet; Fortunately that is one of the most common size on any market; .035" which is a call-out size. MIG tips are not given in actual bore diameter, but for the weld wire size they are used with. The actual hole size of this tip is .044". These dimensions are for the MIG contact tip used in a 3/4" Frosty "T" burner. Also, unlike most burners, a "T" works just fine with short MIG tips, finding long tip is the usual problem encountered on your end of the pond. Fortunately the bore diameters of European and Asian manufactured MIG tips are nearly identical to those available in America. Finally, you can always come right back here to get questions answered in a timely manner and in excruciating detail Your only real problem is to make sure the parts needed for your burner design is available locally; if not choose another design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav Posted June 22, 2018 Author Share Posted June 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mikey98118 said: Your only real problem is to make sure the parts needed for your burner design is available locally; if not choose another design. I just found a good website to order pipe parts from, but I'm confused with the dimensions. Take this T-coupler for an example. In the picture below from the same website, it shows that the 20x20x20 R (3/4") version has an internal dimension of 24 mm, yet 3/4" is 19 mm. I suppose this is the one to go with, but can someone explain why it's called 3/4" when it's not 27 nor 24 mm. "Tidigare benämnt" was what the product was called, "Utvändigt mått ca" is the outer diameter and "Invändigt mått ca" is the inner diameter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 pipe threads are often measured on the nominal bore of the pipe a 3/4" pipe thread will be about 25mm the outside diameter of 1" pipe is 33.7mm but inside is about 25mm depending on wall thickness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 22, 2018 Share Posted June 22, 2018 Nominal (call-out) pipe sizes don't ever match actual measurements; pipes were classified (standardized) in the eighteen hundreds, when the strongest steel alloys around were little better than iron. Pipe had much thicker walls back than. Outside diameters of pipe had to conform closely enough for threading tools to work on the products of different manufacturers. So as pipe walls could be made thinner and withstand needed water pressure, actual inside diameters grew until they had littler to do with nominal diameters. During all that time,Great Brittan's Imperial system, and the rest of Europe's Metric system were competing for dominance,while undergoing the same size changes made possible buy their steel alloys And fun was had by all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 Couple of questions: 1. What's the ball valve supposed to be? I'm finding in-in, in-out, out-out. 2. How do you actually mount the burner to the forge? Do you weld an adapter to the hole and then screw the burner in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Ball valve has a rotating ball inside, you need one rated for propane (LPG) gas. https://www.google.com/search?q=ball+valve+propane&client=firefox-b-1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi3_eOQsurbAhVdHDQIHXSCCl4Q_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=611 Most attach a tube to the shell (many different ways) welding is common and hold the burner with thumb screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 There are two permanent threads that will take care of most of your questions: Burners 101 and Forges 101. Not knowing that a ball valve is the gas system's on/off switch, or how to mount a burner tells me that you need to read them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share Posted June 24, 2018 12 hours ago, Mikey98118 said: Not knowing that a ball valve is the gas system's on/off switch, [...] I do know what a ball valve is, there is just alot of them with different specifications. The question I asked was what type of ball valve I needed, since I found some that were "in-in" "out-in" etc. Stupid me didn't realize that it probably was wether the threading was inside or outside... However it's still true that I need to read more posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share Posted June 24, 2018 I honestly don't know if I'll be able to build a forge myself. I have welded a bit but finding everything needed to build both the burner and the forge seems to be very difficult, and even if I have all I need I'm not sure if I'd be able to assemble the whole thing. One thing that really sounds inviting is to build one that consists of both soft and hard firebricks inside a steel shell like the one I sketched below, but avoiding wool and casting refractory seems not to be recommended. Me making one is probably the worst for both quality and my health. XXXXXXXXXXXXX links removed It's pretty cheap (and still ships with everything needed except for a gas tank) and big enough for my needs. I'll still have to modifiy it a little bit (doors) but it's a finished forge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 It might be okay, and possibly not. What are they using for bricks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share Posted June 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mikey98118 said: It might be okay, and possibly not. What are they using for bricks? "The floor is made of ceramic brick, providing superior strength and durability." (I assume you're talking about the one I linked and not the forge type I sketched) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 "Ceramic brick" is sales hype; not a legitimate description. This tells me that the person is too ignorant to even put a plausible ad together. End of story. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share Posted June 24, 2018 14 minutes ago, Mikey98118 said: "Ceramic brick" is sales hype; not a legitimate description. This tells me that the person is too ignorant to even put a plausible ad together. End of story. " Is this catastrophic? I'm more worried about inhaling ceramic wool and CO. One of the buyers had coated the inside of the forge to prevent this. This makes me unsure wether the forge gets shipped without getting coated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 4 hours ago, Eophex said: Is this catastrophic? It's catastrophic for the ad man's reliability. Means we can't trust anything he says about the product. You don't need to know how to weld to build a forge, nuts & bolts, rivets, sheet metal screws and such connectors will do just fine. Precautions are simple to prevent breathing ceramic blanket fibers, we go into that in some depth and detail in Forges 101. There are insulating fire bricks that will serve in a propane forge but I don't know how available they are to you. Probably just a little online shopping for K 26 refractory tiles. by Thermal Ceramics will set you up to make a basic brick pile forge. Just a stack of fire bricks forming a hollow chamber you can aim a burner into. You'll still want to coat the flame face with something to armor it, K 26 are soft bricks and will take mechanical damage with use. It is NOT hard to build a forge. Don't let your first ideas trap you into making something that could work a LOT better. Folks like Mike and I have made more than enough mistakes for everybody and we freely offer you the benefits so you don't have to make them yourself . Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 9 hours ago, Frosty said: It's catastrophic for the ad man's reliability. Means we can't trust anything he says about the product. This guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Nothing comes up and it's against the rules to post his link on the forum. PM the link to me and I'll take a look. The product might be okay, maybe need a little modification but we can't base much on what the ad man says, we call them "pitch men" here. Their job is to convince people to buy a product they use a lot of "puffery" things that sound good but may not be completely true or based on actual knowledge. Another phrase we use for someone you have to be careful of what s/he says is, "used car salesman". PM the link to me and I'll take a look, maybe send one to Mikey too. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Frosty said: Nothing comes up and it's against the rules to post his link on the forum. Oh, sorry. Forgot that. I'll PM the link to anyone that wants it. It's a single burner Devil Forge DFSW for $180 + free shipping. It comes with everything needed except for a propane tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 This is good, you can say things like "Devil Forge DFSW" and be within the rules. That's enough info for us to search it out and take a look. They have been discussed and reviewed here before, Mike has a strong opinion. I believe they're discussed in the "Forges 101" thread but I could be wrong, someone will be along shortly to confirm or correct my memory shortly. I build my own gas forges so I'm not the best for reviewing commercial builds. Were I to pick up a Devil Forge I'd do some modifying after a hands on evaluation. I'd toss the fire brick they use for a floor in my brick box as soon as I opened the box. For example. Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 If you're interested here is a link using google and adding "iforgeiron" lots of discussion on them. https://www.google.com/search?q=Devil+Forge+DFSW+"iforgeiron"+site:www.iforgeiron.com&client=firefox-b-1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwik4L7rpe_bAhWSLnwKHZUuAvgQrQIIMSgCMAA&biw=1366&bih=611 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now