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I Forge Iron

Complete Beginner


Jon Kerr

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Today I managed to straighten a pandrol clip..... ready to make some chisels as a housewarming gift for my brother in law. I had a go at a chisel... it was going fairly well until I lost grip with the tongs and dropped it in my slack tub.... resulting in a load of cracks as a result of accidentally quenching in water.... expletives were uttered. I'll have to start again.

Im fortunate enough to have an unlimited supply of those clips, for free, from a legal source!

The cross was finished in time for the funeral.... my family were really pleased with it. Thanks for all your help and advice as always.

 

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Most folks learn that lesson knifemaking; generally after spending *hours* on the piece.  Think of it as a cheap lesson indeed!  As I came into smithing through knifemaking I tend not to have a slack tub in the shop and just "desert normalize" everything.  Having an easily flipped up cover works too.

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Another pretty frustrating session..... I started trying to make a wrought iron hammer with a welded face.

Made a drift first- that went well.

Punched the hammer eye, but I want to try the weld before drifting.

I have two problems....

a) struggling to chisel the "teeth" to grab the face of the hammer until its welded. This is just practice, technique and getting the vice to hold on....

b) I cannot get the iron up to welding temperatures. Im back to wondering if my blower isnt adequate.....

Wish I had someone local, experienced using coke who could look over my setup and tell me whats wrong!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Finished my first knife..... first ever handle too.

I dont think I've heat treated it properly. I quenched it (in oil) but then questioned my memory regarding tempering (I have done it before in kitchen oven) and ended up trying to do it in the fire by heating the spine (using a kind of residual heat method like for punches and chisels). This actually went too far and the blade turned purple, but a file still seems to skate so I sharped it up.

Now that I've come back in and read up again I remember thay knifes are usually tempered for a few hours. Is it likely that my knife is glass hard in the middle? Will it be dangerous?

If so I can remove it from the handle and do it again properly. Any tips on steps welcome.

(Its leaf spring).

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Hi Jon. Looks awesome for a first attempt. I like the profile a lot. Re tempering, hard to say without knowing how thick the blade is and how quickly you heated it. Of course the only way to tell for sure is to snap it a look at the grain structure. I imagine you took your time though so should be ok. 

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What are you going to be using it for? If it's not going to be used for processing whole animals I think it should hold up fine to average kitchen use. People use ceramic blades and they're brittle. It looks good but as to the temper I'd say use your best judgement. 

Pnut

 

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I'd like to gift it to my brother and sister in law..... They will only use it for general kitchen use- vegetables etc.

Neil- it's quite thick-4mm at the spine (its made from your leaf spring!)

 

The colours definitely ran back to blue but I just wonder what the effect of not "soaking" for a longer temper might be?

 

Why is it ok to temper a punch or chisel for a matter of seconds, but a knife needs 3 hrs?

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Ah, OK. Now, I know I'm going to get something wrong here and someone with more knowledge of the crystalline structures and transition points will correct me, but here goes:

In my experience, all heat treatment time is based primarily on the material and its thickness. This applies for quenching, annealing, normalising and tempering. As a result, if made of the same material, the results of tempering a chisel for seconds will not be the same as tempering a knife for hours. When you quench, you change the Austenite to  Martensite, trapping the free carbon atoms within a hard and brittle structure. Tempering allows carbon trapped in the Martensite to be released, which has the effect of reducing hardness and increasing ductility. (Don't ask me how!)

However that's not to say that either is wrong - could you put your punches in the oven for a few hours? Sure, but they are likely to have more ductility than they need and less hardness. Could you slowly heat the back of your knife and let the colours run and then stop the temper as soon as the blade hit the right colour? Again, sure (a treatment often referred to as blue-backing), but the physical properties won't be the same as the soaked knife.

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Shorter answer: because getting the heat treatment just so is more important with a knife than it is with a punch or chisel. Generally speaking, you're dealing with a smaller cross section and have a lot more time and effort invested in a knife, so you need to get very specific properties out of the heat treatment that aren't as critical as they are with a punch or chisel.

You certainly could give a tool the heat treatment for a knife, but the advantages probably aren't worth the time and effort.

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If the back of the blade actually went to blue then that should handle the edge being a bit harder.  It looks like a cooks chopper and I would suggest just going with it as it is.  If it breaks it's more likely due to problems with the original forging---temperature ranges are MUCH more important with blades and hard for folks starting out to internalize---especially if they have been "practicing" with more forgiving steels. (If anyone from the NMT Bladesmithing club is reading this; please reread that previous line!)

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Thanks all of you!

I shouldn't really be attempting a blade yet.... I'm booked onto an Owen Bush (Basher on IFI) course in April which I'm super excited about, during which I'll learn how to do things properly I'm sure.

I blame Neal entirely. He gave me the leaf spring, and I couldnt wait to use it for something.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks very much GuardedDig2!

Things have been a little quiet in the forge lately- too many other things going on including decorating most of the house....

I have managed to finish my first little commision.

My father in law maintains a very old house for a client. It has shutters and a couple of them had rusted so badly as to fail and drop off. He asked if I could replicate the originals.

The piece at the end needed to spin freely and also rest upright, so weight at the bottom.

Worked pretty well. Forging a shoulder for a tenon is really difficult. Is this possible to do well withour a guillotine or monkey tool?

I made it work in the end.

 

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Jon answer to a question you asked several pages back- 

Yessir... someone is reading and watching. I love the fact that I get to set in another country, thousands of miles away- and look at a man's progress in something he likes to do. Your "little" shop is an amazing step in that progress. And a huge investment in it. 

Simply awesome... and inspiring.

I'm making slow steady progress on my own. Due to those pesky "codes" I had to go a completely different route and use a prebuilt wood shed. I'm currently trying to figure out a good method of fire proofing a wood frame with a wood floor. Ugh.

But, just wanted to say well done sir.

And... an ammo can might not be totally unavailable to you. I'm former military, and have four or six on hand being used just for their intended purpose. Not too hard to find here in the states.

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Thanks GuardedDig2.... perhaps once I get my welder working properly my first project should be a guillotine!

Welshj, thanks for the kind words! Its great to know people find this thread useful/interesting and hearing that gives me enthusiasm to keep going and keep updating here.

I feel like I've made incredible progress so far, from my humble beginnings with a JABOD and hairdryer.... the help and support from this forum has been incredible.

Tomorrow is a dedicated forging day! Cant wait.

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  • 1 month later...

Its been a while since I've posted but I've been busy on the blacksmithing front.

I have to say... despite COVID-19 and the UK lockdown being pretty terrible for the most part.... its done wonders for my ability to make time for forging!
While everyone else is going insane with boredom and lonliness, I'm in my absolute element and have managed to get work done on all kinds of projects which have been weighing me down for ages!

I'm having major trouble learning to weld.... its a nightmare. I picked up an arc welder but so far all I've managed is to blow a bunch of fuses and make a mess on a steel plate. I havent drawn a single bead.
Beginning to wish I'd gone for MIG.
I'm constantly blowing 13amp fuses and thinking I need to upgrade to a 16a plug and socket... which my workshop should be set up for in terms of supply/breakers... but I cant get an electrician in till after the lockdown ends.

As for projects- huge number of pictures here in one go, so I'll rundown each with a quick description of what I've been up to.

- BBQ hook tool for my brother in law. He has a fancy upright oil drum style smoker which has all kinds of hooks and racks inside for different meats... and a tool for simply hooking onto the hooks to take them in and out of the barrel. He lost the tool so I made him a new one..... the original was very basic but I thought I'd embellish this one with a twist and a leaf for a bit of fun. The leaf creates a loop for hanging it on a hook so here's hoping they wont lose it again!

(72) Smoker Hook.jpg

(73) Smoker Hook.jpg

- Arm Ring. My brother-in-law and sister-in-law gave me a piece of Damasuc steel for Christmas which they had purchased online. Its essentially ready to be made into a stock remove knife but I figured there is enough material to make a few extra things too. The first thing I wanted to try was an arm ring for a bit of fun. I need to get hold of some suitable acid to etch it and bring the contrast back out in the pattern. You can steel see the pattern a bit though.

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(75) Arm Rings.jpg

- Scaffold Board Shelves. These were inspired by some pictures I had seen online by a UK smith called Padgett Ironworks. He has a nice little online store which both inspired me for a few projects and tempted me to spend a fortune...! Fortunately for me (but not Mr Padgett) I managed to resist spending any money but I did shamelessly copy his shelf idea.

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(77) Scaffold Board Shelf Bracket.jpg

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- Updated picture of my forging area for anyone who's interested in such things. I love seeing pictures of other people's work areas and tools!

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Continuation of the previous post... more pictures... sorry!

- I've joined a Facebook group link removed. Its a great idea and there's quite a lot of people joining in each week, from a range of different skill levels. I joined in for the first time this week and the challenge was Bells.....

This was my first time forging a bell, and first time forging pipe rather than solid stock.

The first one started out well but quickly became a disaster when my attention wavered for a minute or two and it melted horribly. The nerds and wargamers among us may appreciate that I've named it Nurgles Holy (holey?) Bell of anti-Distraction, and hung it above my forge. I'm hoping its magical power prevents me from burning my stock in future but I doubt it somehow. Expletives were uttered.

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(81) Bell of anti-Distraction.jpg

I then realised I could rescue the project by turning the pipe around and using the other end as my new bell... since Id already done the hard work necking it down.

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The irony? The new, fancy looking bell doesn't ring. The mangled Bell of anti-Distraction rings beautifully.

See video.

As I type I'm currently working on trying to fix it. I need to isolate the bell from the heavy section of hook above with a much smaller neck. I also want to thin the walls of the bell and thereby make it spread out to a larger diameter. For this I need to forge a bicker because my tiny rail-anvil horn isn't long enough. I'm on it....

- A snail..... which would be a very minor achievement except I SUCCESSFULLY FORGE WELDED THE TAIL. I'm so happy.

(84) New Snail.jpg

(85) New Snail.jpg

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Try degreasing the bracelet and then soaking it overnight starting with a hot vinegar and salt solution---letting it cool slowly.  Wash under running water and then a quick baking soda rinse and then your favorite anti rusting coating: wax, oil, etc.

Usually pretty good at showing the pattern; not very good for topography.  Also like blades; the better the surface finish is before etching the better it is after etching.

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