Chisel holder / fullering tool

[Daswulf]

This is a work in progress inspired from another chisel holder I saw while searching for something else. The one I saw only had one connecting point/ arm. I thought it was a brilliant idea but would be better if it had 2 connecting points.( an arm on either side of the vertical.) and different height adjustment. The other didn't have an extension to hit on the reverse to unwedge a punch. 

also with this tool I saw that different arms could be made for use as a fullering tool and possibly a guillotine tool. That will be in the testing phase but right now the chisel holding function even needs tested. 

Hope this is helpful or inspirational to others. I'll continue this as I build and test it. It's probably been made and posted a thousand times and I missed it. Sorry if that's the case. 

Upper two pictures show it as the chisel holder and the third is the bottom fuller. I need to make the top one yet and some different shapes. 

Nothing really new just my take on it as far as I know. 

More to come regardless. 

[Frosty]

How's it work Das? I'm thinking tool holder more than just chisels. Food for thought. Mmmmmmmm

Frosty The Lucky.

[VaughnT]

Very similar to one I made some time back.  The problems I had were pretty basic once I'd made it and used it a little, and wondered why in the world I didn't foresee the problems in the first place.  One of those face-palm moments to be sure!

It will work, but you'll run into issues with the chisel moving in the arm, rotating and traveling up/down as hit it.  Also, I found the narrow upright allowed for a ton of flex in the holding arm, and switched out to a piece that was 2" wide, or wider if you have it.  The extra width keeps the arms tracking properly when they want to move back and forth.

I couldn't find a way to hold the chisel firmly in place and was always having to stop and readjust it.  Even with a really tight clamp on the chisel, Newton's Laws continue to apply!

 

[Daswulf]

Frosty, I didn't get to try it, I'll try to give it a go tonight if my fine lady doesn't go into labor.  

Vaughn, thanks for the valuable insight on your experience. I'll give it a try as is but I can already see the issues you mention. I'll keep brainstorming until I can get back in my shop. 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Could the problem of the chisel rocking back & forth be solved by grinding small groves/slots in the holding arms? If it's been posted before, I also missed it but I'll have to try one.

[Daswulf]

 

9 minutes ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

grinding small groves/slots in the holding arms?

That would probably be helpful on round handled chisels and punches. or if the point of hex handle indexes on the holder sides.  Sounds like it would at least help a good bit. 

 

[HammerMonkey]

Wow, I like it Das! I am staying tuned for more on this tool.

[rockstar.esq]

Das,

Interesting idea for sure.  When I made a guillotine tool I was surprised at how hard I had to hit the dies to overcome their inertia.  Adding mass to stiffen or lock the tool better will reduce the efficiency of your hammer blow.

Years ago I watched a "Woodrights shop" episode at a blacksmiths shop where the smith was using a stubby little cold chisel to cut some steel sheet stock.  At the time I thought the smith might have sharpened the chisel too many times over the years.  Now I think he intentionally used a shorter chisel to make the hammer blows more effective.

All the twisting, rolling, and misbehaving that the chisel might do under a hammers blow would be minimized by making it shorter.

Your helper might be perfectly suited to holding relatively light and short top tools.

 

[Glenn]

A piece of angle iron attached to the inside of the arm could act as a guide to hold the chisel vertical.  As to the arm moving up or down the chisel, place the chisel closer to the hot metal before you strike it with a hammer. You could develop a foot operated treadle to lower the chisel just before each hammer blow. This would also make the accuracy of the chisel impact a lot better. 

[Daswulf]

Rockstar, the thought of using short chisels did cross my mind today. I was looking at the tool and the chisel in it thinking that the length would give it more opportunity to move around in the holder vs. a short chisel or punch. Also thinking of any of the chisels used with holding tongs or handled chisels used for power hammers, they are short for a reason, control. Long handled chisels are for holding by hand to keep your hand away from the radiant heat. Yes, the tools upper arms can be moved down to accommodate different size tools or stock.  

Glenn, I have a few ideas floating in my head to steady/ square up the chisel better, that adds another. 

I was thinking maybe just a spring attached to a lower hole then attached further out on the arm to keep downward pressure then it could be bumped / held open with the hammer to set the piece under the tool. 

[Jim Coke]

Greetings Das,

     A simple (V) cut in the arms at the chisel pinch point would help with tension and alignment.. Just this ol boys 2c 

Forge in and make beautiful things 

Jim

[Daswulf]

Thanks Jim. That does sound like the simplest solution. 

[Daswulf]

I went straight to making the V in the holder. Right after I was looking at about every punch and chisel I have and they are all long or have flats on the sides that are incompatable with the v I put in the holder. Figuring i need shorter chisels punches anyway I made some out of coil spring. Will continue as needed. 

The tool worked great. It bounces up sand I just tap it back into place. Way more  testing is needed. But the first run wasn't bad at all. Sorry, many pictures.

 

[Lou L]

Really cool idea.  Let me try to predict another minor possible problem that could occur during use.  If you are cutting through thicker stock the angle of the swing arm will change slightly as it pivots on the support.  This could cause the cut you are making to drift slightly toward the direction of the hardy.  To keep it completely straight the pinch point of the chisel would have to swivel independently of the swing arm.  Until you get this design down I think I’ll just continue with my practice of taping a bubble level to my top tools   

[Glenn]

You could build a double arm chisel holder, think treadle hammer which would keep the chisel in vertical alignment during the swing. Or use a tube as a guild think treadle hammer or power hammer. This would get the chisel on target, but you need to work out some details.

We are now starting to over complicate simple.

[JHCC]

Or just build a treadle hammer!

[Daswulf]

I'll get back to this next week some time.  

one main use for this for me is just scoring lines on stock for fancier twists. I do believe I'll make an adjustable side stop. Just from testing it out quick I can tell it will be easier then holding stock or tongs between my legs to score it. 

With other tasks, sure I'd like it to be versatile, perfection in all other tasks is not mandatory  tho we can always try to see how far we can take it. 

 

[VaughnT]

Love the v-notches you put in.  That would have made my piece a lot more convenient!  No idea why I didn't think of that!!  

When I made mine, it was with the idea that I'd use 1/2" roller bearings that I had, so I drilled a .5" hole with a cut to it.  Thought I could clamp down on the punch with the bolt, but..... nope.  Or, it didn't do it well enough that there still wasn't a lot of slippage.  And, I was locked into using 1/2" stock.  Your v-notches make things so much more awesome, imo!

Here's a design that I snagged off the world wide web.  I like that the tool remains vertical through the line of travel, but I haven't found a way to adapt it to using tooling made from coil springs and such.

 

 

[Frosty]

Make the tool holder L shaped with the leg down. The second arm doesn't have to be on top nor heavy. The rear pivot doesn't need to be connected directly to the post either but it'll need a guide or it'll be all floppy. I like a piece of tubing for the slide on the post, weld the pivot ear to it. Drill the front and rear pivot holes at the same time, stack tack and drill so they match as perfectly as possible.

Heck, make a drill template so you can make different purpose built tools without having to adapt to the holder. Same for the bottom die. 

I've given it some thought over the years just never built one, I never really had the need. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[rockstar.esq]

Das

The chisel might benefit from having flats in the gripping area to keep it from rotating in your holder should you ever find yourself needing to work the cut into a curve or taper. If you had octagonal flats at the gripping area you'd have  45 degree increments for positioning the cutting edge.

You might also want to inscribe lines on the bottom plate showing where the center of your tool holder will land.  That could be helpful for aligning a bottom bolster when you're punching, swaging, or drifting. It could also prove useful for shearing chisel cuts if you put a support block in the right spot.

This thing also looks like a natural for letter punching or touchmarks.  An adjustable stop or cradle might be helpful to quickly index the stock into location.

Your chisel reminds me of something I saw on a Mark Aspery video.  He profiles his chisels with a false edge on the thin side to provide a sighting plane to aim the cut.  It's especially useful when peeking over the far edge of the work.

Looking at everything there, it occurs to me that a tuna can with a magnet in the bottom could serve as a handy tool quenching cup.  Deep enough to cool the contact areas, shallow enough to slide under the swing arm, and just sticky enough to avoid falling to the floor.