c.baum Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Dear community, i used the search function of IFI and google, but most of the threads are about what to make out of an old saw blade or which steel they are made of. If this is not the right section for this thread please feel free to move it where it belongs. A good friend actually made his hunting exam and i thought it would be a nice gift making a "knife and saw kit" for field dressing. Anyone with experience in making a saw? Which shape should the teeth have for cutting bone? Are there measurements to pay attention to? Hope you can help me! P.S: I'm definitely able to google for a butcher saw and try to copy it. But want to UNDERSTAND how it works and how it's made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W. Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Well, ive never made a saw, so take my advice for what its worth. That being said, i would use a spring steel. Every saw ive ever used can be bent well past 90° and return right back to straight with no issue, which means theyre likely tempered similarly to springs, which, if my memory serves, is right in the blue stage of tempering colors, about 525-550 degrees F. Your going for toughness and springyness here, not hyper edge retention. You also want it to be thin! Like under .08" would be my guess. Like a fillet knife, thin blade = flexible. Leads me to wonder if saws have a distal taper.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 You want the steel to be soft enough that it can still be filed by hand. Probably best to do some tests with different tempering colors/temperatures to see how they behave both for sharpenability and flexibility. 5 minutes ago, Will W. said: Leads me to wonder if saws have a distal taper.... Probably not. A distal taper would mean the tip would produce a thinner kerf; the base of the blade, a thicker. That's a recipe for the saw binding in the cut. Some high end saws do taper edge-to-spine, but if the teeth are properly set, that's not necessary. One thing you might consider would be a hollow handle that the blade from a standard butcher's saw could fit into, to cut on the pull stroke. The blade would be under tension while it cuts (like a traditional Japanese woodworker's saw), eliminating the need for a bulky saw frame. The whole thing would be fairly light and easy to pack, as well as easy to disassemble to clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.baum Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 Many thanks for your interesting answers! Will W. I think spring steel will be a good choice. High flexibility is a good point, but i think the saw blade won't be longer than 3 or 4 inches. 14 hours ago, JHCC said: to cut on the pull stroke you're sure? the butchers saw i found looks like cutting on the push... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 May want to look at a surgeons bone saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 50 minutes ago, c.baum said: you're sure? the butchers saw i found looks like cutting on the push... Standard butchers saws do indeed cut on the push, but that’s not what I’m suggesting. Such saws depend on the rigidity of their frames to keep their blades straight. However, if you dispense with the frame and turn the blade around, the tension of the pull stroke will keep it straight in the cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Have you visited the Hunting and Fishing Museum in Munich? I would write the curators and ask about viewing examples of hunting saws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 3-4 inches is pretty short. Will the saw be for out in the field, or back at home? Go to - The Gear Hunt dot com - and check out what they recommend. Down at the bottom there is a section that goes over various types and features you should consider when buying a saw which can help in making one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 "Hunting Weapons", Howard L Blackmore, 1971 shows a couple of examples including one where the saw blade looks to be the "edge" as well as the more common saw-back of a blade. May want to search under "hunting trousse" as well for examples of an entire "kit" for the well supplied hunter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Take a walk into your local butchers shop and ask to have a look at their hand saw blade (explain why, they be intrigued and likely helpfull ) as that is presumably the optimum tooth profile for cutting bone, as mentioned above making it a pull cutting blade may be a good idea for a field kit as it requires less framework so lighter and more compact.......could even be made on the spine of a knife blade for the ultimate field tool! ( I'm unsure but something in the back of my mind keep whispering, crosscut profile......will be interested to know what you find out,) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.baum Posted April 19, 2018 Author Share Posted April 19, 2018 Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with me!! On 18.4.2018 at 7:20 AM, JHCC said: However, if you dispense with the frame and turn the blade around, the tension of the pull stroke will keep it straight in the cut. now i know what you mean! sounds logic to me. 16 hours ago, BIGGUNDOCTOR said: 3-4 inches is pretty short. Will the saw be for out in the field, or back at home? I do not know the correct term in English, but when you killed the animal you cut open the gut to remove the entrails to cool the body down as fast as possible. to do so you also cut open the pelvis. sometimes you need a saw for that. There are solutions to purchase, but my intention was to make a foldable saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 2 hours ago, c.baum said: my intention was to make a foldable saw. Kind of like a friction-folder knife? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Budd Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 i've made a number of wood cutting saws, but not a bone saw (aside from small saws for making bone combs and things). The wood saws have been made from spring steel and tempered to mid to high 40's RC to allow sharpening with files. Some were cut from a sheet of pre-heat treated steel with the teeth set to create the kerf; others forged into knife like cross section and the teeth cut into the thick side, thus the blade created the kerf. I also made a frame saw and bought a ready made blade for that as it was more cost effective than making one from scratch If I were making a bone saw for a hunter, I would make just the frame and then size it to fit commercially available blades. They are bound to break and you may as well save yourself the hassel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Smoggy, both the Germans and the Swiss made sawback bayonets. Many of the German ones seen today have had the saw ground off as they were deemed cruel and unusual . But as a sapper's tool they provided a long saw. The ones I have seen are all push cut and have a crosscut tooth. C.Baum, yes, we call that field dressing the game. For in the field I would check out the site I posted above as they have some good information regarding using saws in the field. Myself I would think a longer folding type blade would be best as it would allow a longer stroke and reduce the time and effort need to do the task. A thin blade will also take less effort to use as less material is being removed by the blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 IIRC "All Quiet on the Western Front" mentions what happens if you were caught with a saw backed bayonet by the enemy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 The ones that I’ve liked best are Japanese style folding pruning saws. Cutting on the pull stroke with super sharp teeth. An American made version that I used for a few years would cut in both directions. Personally I think a blade of 8” to 10” is about the minimum for reasonable efficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 The old 2 man crosscut saws were bi directional; but toothed for wood not bone. A civil war surgeons kit usually includes an effective bone saw for amputations which were done as fast as possible back then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 2 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: The old 2 man crosscut saws were bi directional; but toothed for wood not bone. The old "misery whips" also had different styles of tooth depending on whether they were for softwoods or hardwoods. There's some interesting detail at this page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.baum Posted April 23, 2018 Author Share Posted April 23, 2018 I never imagined such a high activity in this thread. Many thanks again! I hope you don't mind that it took a while for me to answer, i've been on a business trip. I don't think that a combined knife with a "saw back" is a good idea. I think that saw back will damage too much venison when handled too careless. On 19.4.2018 at 2:57 PM, JHCC said: Kind of like a friction-folder knife? That's my intention. On 20.4.2018 at 7:10 AM, bigfootnampa said: Personally I think a blade of 8” to 10” is about the minimum for reasonable efficiency. That's too long. Maybe you should ask the search engine of your choice for pics about "Aufbrechsäge". I hope that helps you to understand what i mean. On 20.4.2018 at 7:54 PM, JHCC said: The old "misery whips" also had different styles of tooth depending on whether they were for softwoods or hardwoods. There's some interesting detail at this page. What an interesting link! Not for cutting bones, but maybe there will be a wood saw following. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 13 hours ago, c.baum said: That's too long. Maybe you should ask the search engine of your choice for pics about "Aufbrechsäge". I hope that helps you to understand what i mean. I know what you mean. I prefer a longer saw blade for the purpose. I’ve harvested quite a few critters in my day. The process is one at which I am quite experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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