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DIY anvil stand


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The main gripe I have with this video is that it spreads the idea that track anvils such as yours are worthwhile. I'm sure that anvil took you quite some time, between the angled cuts and grinding for the "horn" and cutting out the webbing underneath the anvil and making that hardy hole. All time that could have been spent making a far more usable tool. Don't take this too hard, but youtube is full of "DIY railroad track anvil" tutorials by a LOT of people who likely haven't even spent a year using one. This to me is akin to asking someone how they like a certain car the day after they drive it off the lot. 

See here for a potentially new design if u want to make a 2nd anvil: 

 

Another good idea would be to mention the wide range of other anvil substitutes that can work as well or better than railroad track such as seen here. From what i've read almost any large chunk of non-cast iron will beat out a track anvil that's laid down. On end i generally the preferred method and the method i used for my first anvil.

 

 

 

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I'm starting to understand just how this forum is..... kinda humorous really.... again this isn't designed to be the best of the best.... this is a way to get started... if you'd like to purchase and ship a new anvil and stand to my home I'll gladly explain why it is far superior..... in the mean time I'm going to pound my anvil instead of this keyboard! Thanks for your input and support!

No your post proves that you really do not understand how this place works, try to relax and  see what is being said and perhaps you will someday

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What I was saying specifically is that you could have done better with just a change of design, and then suggested a way to get more valuable info into your videos to separate you from a lot of the "this railroad track anvil is all you need" videos, which are VERY abundant. 

You clearly put in some time grinding and cutting, putting that same time into a vertically mounting piece of rail you could have done better. 

For someone to make a railroad anvil like you did it tells me you didn't research outside of youtube, that flies quite well on youtube, but it will get you negative attention on this site. If you looked into making a railroad anvil you'd have seen many people saying not to do what you did. But, you did NOT grind out a perfect horn, so you didn't put an excess of time in. 

 

To speak frankly however, I'm curious what your intentions are long term for your youtube channel and blacksmithing in general. To put it plainly, you posted a cheap and dirty guide on a blacksmithing forum, which is bound to get negative attention. I'm not trying to be mean, I just want to see less videos on youtube with what i've found personally to be misinformation, as there is a LOT of it out there. We get many visitors to the site that have been told a lot of wrong info, i was one of them. Which presents an interesting situation, a new person gets "yelled at" for information they are just passing along from a bad source. It looks to me that you're trying to build a brand somewhat with your youtube videos, I suggest you do this by doing a lot of research before projects as in my view cheap and dirty youtube channels are a very dense market. 

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6 hours ago, Charcold said:

 It looks to me that you're trying to build a brand somewhat with your youtube videos, I suggest you do this by doing a lot of research before projects as in my view cheap and dirty youtube channels are a very dense market. 

I suppose you could call it a brand.... I'm sorry you can't admit that the stand does just what it's designed to do.... it holds the anvil.... as far as time put into the Anvil it was free and looked just as it is..... So this cheap and easy build is far superior IMO for a new guy.... doesn't take much research to bolt/strap a hunk of metal to the top of a piece of wood, it's like that car you referred to.... we don't put kids in brand new cars because they have a high chance of wrecking it before they really learn and what happens if they decide not to ever drive again after they first start.... so I'll bet with time folks who do this including myself will decide if the investment in a better anvil,forge etc... is what we are looking for after we test drive the hobby for a bit and quite frankly this beats a rock and it's better than sitting around pounding a keyboard..... or spending a small fortune cause some internet jockey said so... Happy Piddling & Happy Thanksgiving go find something to be thankful for! 

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You are correct when you said folks can test drive the hobby and then decide if they want to continue. No one ever said that you could not use what was available to get started. You have to have a first anvil, a first forge, a first hammer and etc. Once you get started, you can them improve the tools and choose a second anvil, forge, hammer, etc.  You do not have to have a NEW or expensive anvil in order to work hot metal. Blacksmiths have used many items as anvils, rocks, rail road rails, fork truck tines, lumps of metal, etc. The general opinion is an object with a mass of 50 to 100 pounds or greater is best. 

Your phone pole anvil stand seems to lack a support mechanism to keep it from being tipped over. The phone pole diameter would limit the weight of an alternate style anvil being used, as it could quickly become top heavy. Trees, stumps, etc have been used as anvil stands for years. They are many times buried into the ground for stability, and so they do not get tipped over.

Rail road tracks are best used as an anvil when they are turned on end and well supported. This way the mass of the track (anvil) is directly under the hammer blow. The photo shows a piece of RR track on end, the hammer face, and a piece of 1/2 inch diameter round stock. The end of the RR track is much larger than the face of the hammer, so using the end of the RR track should not be a problem. The hammer face moves the metal, not the anvil face.

rr02

 

As to the height of the top of the anvil: Knuckle high is an older recommendation for actual anvils, used in working blacksmith shops. The hobby and part time blacksmith may find that break of the wrist is a more comfortable height. The better height would be to level the anvil face in both directions, then place a piece of wood sheeting on the face of the anvil and hit the wood with your hammer. If the crescent is at 12 o'clock, the anvil face is too low. If the crescent is at 6 o'clock the anvil face is too high. If the crescent is at 9 or 3 o'clock the hammer is tilted. Adjust the anvil height so the hammer hits flat on the anvil face, leaving a circular impression. This is the same height test for when a striker is used. Adjust the height of the anvil face so his hammer hits flat on the anvil face. 

We want you to succeed. Our suggestions are made to help you improve your videos and provide good information to those viewing them.

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10 hours ago, Glenn said:

Our suggestions are made to help you improve your videos and provide good information to those viewing them.

My main problem with viewing the videos is the rapid and jerky camera movements. Want a better video pan the camera slower and smoother.

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Okay, I watched the vid.   

My take -- you did good in explaining why the stump is as high as it is.  

You're obviously good enough with a chainsaw that you got a nice flat/parallel cut as I didn't see any wobble in the finished product.  Or, if you had to do some touch-up sanding, you didn't mention it or show it.  No problem there except "make an anvil stand" should cover that possibility since a lot of folks won't be good enough to get it right the first time.

 

Issues?  Well, as others have mentioned, the stand is very very tippy.  Even with such a light anvil, I can see that whole contraption bouncing around and wanting to fall over unless you are only hitting straight down -- something that almost never happens in smithing.

Secondly, your point about this being a low-cost entry into the blacksmithing trade is valid, but only to a point.  Yes, folks can try a set up like yours to see if they like blacksmithing.  However,  a tippy stand and a super-inefficient anvil will make their experience rather aggravating.  This will be a turn-off rather than a turn-on.  Honestly, I'm all for it, though, since I liken it to a "rite of passage" and anyone that can suffer through using such a set up and still want to go further with the trade will be a good candidate.

Third, using a phone pole is a good idea if you put a wide base on it, but a lot of folks don't have access to a pole.  You used what you had on hand, obviously, but that's not the norm for the majority of people.  It might sound odd, but when doing "how to" vids, it's important to think about the types of materials folks have ready access to  Going down to the hardware store to get dimensional lumber is a lot easier than getting in touch with a utility company and asking for an old pole -- then transporting said pole home and cutting it up.

Fourth -- branding is important.  You came up with a catchy name and do some decent work with the camera.  Content, however, is where you really set yourself apart from the herd and can lead to serious money.  Part of that brand is being known for quality craftsmanship, unique ideas and fresh takes on old notions.  As others have said, there are a ton of vids on youtube that talk about making and using anvils out of railroad tracks.  And all of them seem to use the tracks in the same fashion you have yours set up.  Not only is this a bad idea, for reasons already explained, but you did nothing to set yourself apart from those vids.  You copied them, basically, and added nothing fresh to the conversation.

It's okay that you didn't build the anvil.  In fact, that's a point in your favor.  If, however, you'd have changed things up and installed the track vertical, explaining to the folks why it's a better option, you would have established yourself as far more credible and educated.  To date, I don't know that I've ever seen a vid explaining why vertical tracks are better. 

 

And don't get xxxxx when posting here.  We've all been around this game for longer than you've been alive and we know what we're talking about.  You wanted to pop in and show off, then got miffed because what you brought to the table was less than impressive.  It happens.  That's life.  Learn and do better.  There's more wisdom on this forum than you can find most places,  a lot of us with decades of experience in making stands, using different configurations of stands and anvils, teaching folks how to forge and why to do things the way we do.  You're a piddler by admission, and that's okay.  Here, though, even the other piddlers have been in the game for ages beyond you.  Be humble and learn from their experiences.

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You don't seem to actually take criticism very well, so this will be my last post in the thread. What I was specifically saying is that using the EXACT same supplies (a piece of track and an angle grinder) you could have made a better anvil. If you didn't make your anvil at all that changes things a bit, but a video on a vertically mounted track would have been better. All of your points on beginners being able to try this hobby cheaply have nothing to do with what i said at all, i'm talking about a change of plans with the same supplies, not putting any more money into it. I noticed in your video you talked about sourcing track and other supplies for free from people you know, that's a great piece of advice. But any beginner who thinks after seeing your "anvil" that they should replicate it, because you offered zero alternatives, will be heading down a less effective path that could be easily corrected. If you read up a bit on the history of the discussion of railroad anvil generally and the amount of misinformation that's attached to that subject you may start to see where negativity on the subject comes from. But overall if you want to post cheap and dirty content dont expect praise for it, that's not a mean spirited statement, in the youtube world there is a place for cheap and dirty DIY videos they're quite popular and can help get people started down the right path. This just isn't a forum where less than ideal information goes unchecked, that's all.

 

Quote

sitting around pounding a keyboard..... or spending a small fortune cause some internet jockey said so...

this just seems like you didn't understand me in the slightest. i didn't mean to suggest spending any more money than i assumed you spent.

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3 minutes ago, Charcold said:

can help get people started down the right path. This just isn't a forum where less than ideal information goes unchecked, that's all.

Exactly! Nothing wrong with saying hey if you would turn that piece of track on end it is more efficient.....  nothing wrong with saying grinding a piece of track is useless...  as far as the stand being wobbly it isn't but wouldn't be hard to add a square of 2x4s around the bottom if it becomes a problem.... I honestly do not mind ideas to make things better or criticism, what I don't like is folks who come off with a pompous attitude! I have been thinking now I should turn it on end maybe carve out a space with my saw.... or I have a pile of old 4x4x12' post I think I could make a very nice stand with the RR TRACK on end.... either way it's Thanksgiving y'all have a good one

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Now that we are back on a more civilized footing, I would like to adress your coment "I see how this forum works". I realize you had just had your feelings hurt, we have all been there. This forum works on two basic principles, Glenn insists and enforces civility, and for the rest, consider this an ever evalving pier reviewed resorce.

as to carving out a horn and hardy on a track, this has been a recommended method for neirly a century for hobiests to creat a usible anvil, but it has always had problems. First the web is only 7/8", this flexes imperceptibly and by doing so absorbes energy from your hammer blows, secondly it takes a heck of a lot of work to cut and shape a hunk of rail into a London patern anvil shape. Vertically the rail provides you with a 1-1/2x3" solid serface. This mass is more effecent than 7/8" with a blob on top. As Vikings used 1-1/2-2# hammers the relitivly small face is sufficient, if you need a long face for straitening just hold the stock vertical and hammer horizontal against the rail head. A bick (horn) is not acualy nessisary to forge scrolls or other curves, but helpful.

as to the hardy hole, a tool plate mounted to the top of your stump with your vertical rail bolted to the side and suported underneath works much better. A peice of track plate works having 5/8" holes, or one can use a peice 1/2-1" plate and make a 1" square hole (I prefer to drill and file as the slag from the torch is a PITA to file) and mout this to the stump. One can also simply imbed a peice of heavy wall square tubeing.

all this being said, welcome to Glenn's international block party. You don't have to be crazy to hang out with us (we have an apprenticeship program).

fwi, imbed the horn of your "anvil" in your stump and start forging!

ps, when you post about your brake drum forge I will dink you and show you atleast 2 other forges that are much cheaper and easier to build that will work as well or better...

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6 minutes ago, Charles R. Stevens said:

, when you post about your brake drum forge I will dink you and show you atleast 2 other forges that are much cheaper and easier to build that will work as well or better...

Show me now lol so I can do a video that might actually get a positive statement.... 

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47 minutes ago, American Piddler said:

I have been thinking now I should turn it on end maybe carve out a space with my saw.... or I have a pile of old 4x4x12' post I think I could make a very nice stand with the RR TRACK on end.

Excellent idea. In fact, do both: you can title your video “Make Your RR Track Anvil SUPER EFFECTIVE!!!”

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Unless you are responding to a specific passage within a larger post* or a comment higher up in in a fast-moving thread, there’s no reason to use the quote feature so much. In fact, it eats up bandwidth and makes pages slower to load for our members and readers who use dial-up. 

 

*As I did with my two comments above. You can highlight the relevant passage and click the “Quote this” button that will pop up. 

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I know you have gotten plenty of responses, but let me just ad my $0.02. Sure, you could have improved your design with more research, but don't sweat it. It isn't just the newbies on YouTube that recommend horizontal rail anvils, either. I know of popular professional blacksmiths that recommend them. Not saying they are right. I'm just saying it isn't stupid. This forum is a melting pot of different people and diferent ideas, and thanks to the masters on this forum that have EXPERIENCE, lots of preconceived notions, and false information has really been strained out on I Forge Iron. We all have different specialties, and new ideas and concepts are always being put to the test and held up against true experience. As a result, I believe that the information we are able to give for people starting out is the best information that exists on the subject. No one person can figure everything out, but when you have a collaboration of experts, you have something very valuable. My recommendation is that you take advantage of the resources here. You have the opportunity to share the product of generations of refining these practices, if you will learn from the things that are established here. No more guesswork. The percentage of "how to..." videos related to beginning blacksmithing is overwhelmingly choked out by people that don't know what they are talking about. Show them how to learn the right way. Not that every video has to be about processes that have been brought down to a science. Just don't blurr the line between experiments and experience. If you want to try something you don't have personal experience with, there's nothing wrong with making a video titled "wooden anvil experiment"!:) Just make it clear that it is an experiment. That's how you will separate yourself from the people pretending to have athority that....just don't. I like your catchy name, and I look forward to seeing more videos from you in the future. Best wishes in your endeavor.

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