Stump anvil or huge hardie?

[humphreymachine]

I can’t decide whether this is a stump anvil or a hardie for a giant anvil. It may also me a tinsmith’s tool but the post is not tapered enough to fit my stake plates. What do you think?

[Frosty]

I'd call that a stump anvil, that's pretty heavy duty for a tin knocker and if you had an anvil large enough to accept it. . . Why? That would be perfect for a Y1K event or traveling kit.

Nice score.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Reeltree]

I do believe it's a tin smith tool,,Mine has square shanks,,you can make a new plate to fit it

[Jim Coke]

Greetings Humphrey,

        That would be a tinsmiths tool. Many manufactures made different stake plates to fit there tools..  Most likely it's cast iron .. I have others like it and never use them ..  

Forge on and make beautiful things 

Jim

[humphreymachine]

Thank you for your input everyone. Jim - this example is forged iron or steel - that is scale on the post. Given the lack of rust I don't think that it is terribly old(or it was stored in a very 'friendly' environment). Frosty - I agree with your "why" query but I do seem to see smaller hardies which are merely a square or rectangular block on a hardie stem.   

[JHCC]

I could see that being used in the hardy hole of a very large anvil. If such a big anvil is set low for working with a striker, such a hardy block could create a small, elevated area for finer hand work -- especially if the anvil's edges are banged up and a crisper working surface is needed.

[humphreymachine]

It would fit nicely in an anvil with a 2 inch hardy hole. Do larger anvils have holes that large? Could be used in a swage block as well.

[marcusb]

I've had a couple 500 pound ish anvils, there hardies were 1.5"

 

[JHCC]

Just watched @jlpservicesinc video on making bolt tongs and noted that she used an almost identical (if somewhat smaller) hardy block at refine the shape of the jaws.

[jlpservicesinc]

I'd suggest its a set tool for a large anvil.. With anvils of this size you sometimes need a smaller working surface and because the anvil face is so wide it isn't practical to work on a corner.. 

It's one of the main reasons I like the german double horn anvils It negates having to use a bottom set tool in the hardie hole.. 

Nearly all the stump anvils I have ever seen have either a point on the shank or a pin/slotted hole with a really long  tang.. 

Mind you with the likes of the newer wave of  videos by Brian Brazeal and Alec Steele with putting a fine taper before upsetting into the required tool in the future when these are antiques it will be hard to tell.. 

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Is the face hardened?

And my 515# Fisher anvil has a 1.5" hardy hole, as does the bridge anvil I have. My 410# Trenton has a 1.375" hardy hole.

[jlpservicesinc]

That is one of the neat things about all this stuff.. You have the normal then every once in awhile you have to ask "What"?

It has 2 sharp edges and 2 rounded edges from the looks of it.. Just like the set tool I made.. It's funny though as the set tool was one of the first haride tools I made..  It ended up with a nice flat top but the sides under the face ended up undercut due to a lack of experience.. 

 

[humphreymachine]

There is a new twist to this discussion as revealed in the photograph below. What I thought were several hammer marks in the face which I would need to sand out turned out upon cleaning to be two graduated sets of intentionally formed geometric shapes. Both sets of three loosely resemble battle axes or garden edgers. One set of three is nearly semicircular while the other is more pointed. Presumably these are intended to impart a maker's mark or repetitive patterns which protrudes from a piece of work rather than embossed into it.  So what do you think now?

 

[jlpservicesinc]

boom, there you have it.. Solved..   Question becomes what are you going to use it for? 

[humphreymachine]

It does not feel solved to me. It is still not clear to me what kind of tradesman would have used this and why he would have wanted this pattern to protrude from his work rather than be stamped into it? Could it be a silversmith's tool which has taken on the patina of a blacksmith's tool? I don't envision using this texture in my work which raises the question - sand out the embossing or preserve it as an artifact/collectible tool?

 

I wonder whether this might emboss the pattern in the end of silver and silver plate spoons and ladles? 

[Irondragon ForgeClay Works]

The mystery deepens and this is just a SWAG, a stake to emboss a touch mark on armor. I would preserve it.

[ThomasPowers]

Wouldn't work well on armour as you have too much flat to press down to leave the embossed mark

[Kozzy]

My vote would be for flatware handles.  It's a devil to try and find photos of the *backs* of older flatware but here is one which is a more modern copy of an older design and made in the 40's.  I have seen the same design in many minor variations from the"handmade" days---basically that cheshire cat smile on the underside.  

Obviously...it's still a guess.

[jwindol]

I would think that being used on steel fab would cause more mushrooming (burring?).

[4elements]

Humphreymachine, could you try a sample flatware handle like Kozzy suggested and take a picture?

[Spoonman]

I am a flatware manufacturer of forty + years. This is a spoonmakers tiest, which would be set in a stump, and used to forge silver spoons. The crescent shapes are for swaging  the ends of the handles. This is still done the same way where I work, and at Old Newbury Crafters in Amesbury Massachusetts. Trust me on this, mystery solved!

From the shape of the crescents, this is probably a nineteenth century pre-civil war tool. After that, the hand forging of spoons in America declined, and more industrial methods were adopted. 

[Irondragon ForgeClay Works]

Welcome to IFI Spoonman. Hope you hang around to add your expertise to some of our guessing. Have you read this thread, it will help with getting the best out of the forum. READ THIS FIRST