ryancrowe92 Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I am a beginner and I don't have a lot of money but I get about $75 a week and I want to build a forge that can withstand 3000F and be used to heat metal and melt it in a crucible if I want to sell some aluminum or gold, silver, etc. so the only ways I have found how to do this is by fire brick and refractory mortar / cement and I want it so I can put the metal in and take it out and put it on the anvil and start hammering at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Forges for smithing and furnaces for smelting are two very different animals. If you're on a limited budget, pick one and go with that. Please take some time to read over the various sections of IFI that have to do with solid fuel and gas forges, as well as the casting section for furnace information. You'll find that most basic questions have been asked and answered many times already, so if you don't find what you're looking for there, at least you'll know enough to ask more detailed, more productive questions. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Most places I have been pay you LESS for home melted scrap as it's generally a trashcan stew of alloys and they get more for clean alloys. So you pay in time and money to melt and cast it and get less for it than if you didn't. Some places will also assume it's stolen if you have home cast it for the previous reason. JHCC: probably just a typo; but he does NOT want to Smelt metal; he wants to Melt metal; big difference! I've often used my coal forge to melt fairly small amounts of metal in a crucible for casting knife parts: Copper, brass, bronze; Silver---both fine and sterling. I've never messed with Al. A brake drum forge will do this burning coal of charcoal---a bit trickier with charcoal. You don't then take it from the forge and work it you cast it and then work the casting. In general we consider working with liquid metal to be more dangerous than forging steel---even if the steel is hotter! Please get the proper PPE and training for casting. Have you looked into the casting forums at http://alloyavenue.com/ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 you dont have a lot of money but you want to do casting, do you know what the safety gear will cost for this or what can happen without it? I hope you are not following the 'king of randumb' looks like he wants people to get an award, a 'DARWIN' award a friend of mine who has been metalworking for 30 years has a badly scarred face and nearly lost an eye due to a minor accident casting, molten metal got inside his safety goggles and he had a full face over them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryancrowe92 Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 i don't have a lot of money to get started, the melting is only for like projects for like rings and stuff when i have to have gold or bronze something like that and we take safety precautions but their is no need to get certified i don't even know if i can right now im only 16 why get certified for something you already know how to do, like with wiring a plugin you don't need to be a qualified electrician to install an outlet i done that when i was 14. and yes i have seen grant Thompson's videos but only the one for the microwave arc welder which i wanna make, and Thomas powers i do think your right with melting i want to be able to use it as a forge and to be able to melt as well to make my own alloys and stuff like that. and i have no idea what a brake drum forge is. like i said im kinda new the most Ive done is torching and welding here and there but more now than ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 2 hours ago, ThomasPowers said: JHCC: probably just a typo; but he does NOT want to Smelt metal; he wants to Melt metal; big difference! Quite right; my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 this is not about being certified, this is more about one drop of sweat falling into a crucible would mean the entire contents of that crucible being blasted into your face. one ounce of molten aluminium may kill you or leave you blind and permanently disfigured, also consider the cost of medical care needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, the iron dwarf said: also consider the cost of medical care needed Yeah, that's going to run you a lot more than $75/week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I'm guessing that brake drum forge is only mentioned on this site several hundred times. This was a test to see if you could take a term and do your own research rather rely on other people. As for metal casting it's not certified, it's trained. I got my training at an out of hours brass casting class held at a local university's fine arts department. Anyplace local with a community college that offers jewelry making classes? (This is especially useful for folks that want to make knives as they offer training in working non-ferrous metals). Red hot steel, if you drop it heads toward the center of the earth. Molten metal can splash or worse hit water and create a steam explosion flinging molten metal for yards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutant Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Forging and casting are two different things. I've seen a few people make a furnace that can be used for either casting or forging. For casting, you can do this relatively safely if you stick with some common sense and PPE. Making aluminum castings is as addicting as blacksmithing. As suggested, head over to http://www.alloyavenue.com/. You'll get some great advice from people with experience. I would stick with aluminium for awhile if you're just getting into casting. I also wouldn't try to forge any metal but cold rolled steel until you are more experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 24 minutes ago, mutant said: I also wouldn't try to forge any metal but cold rolled steel until you are more experienced. "Cold rolled" is a manufacturing process, not a type of steel. I think what mutant means here is "mild steel" or "low carbon steel". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 I'd more likely suggest hot rolled as it's cheaper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 or any mild steel you can get that is not plated or galvanized. 'in rust we trust' is wise to remember Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Ryan: You're going to hear this till you're sick of hearing it, I did as did everybody else reading this. We know you're 16 and immortal but you don't have any idea what you're talking about. You THINK you know enough to cast metal, THINK you can use a forge as a metal melter too. Some of us can but we've been doing this a long time. Think about it, you don't even know what questions to ask. What you have is an idea but no plan. Asking what kind of forge you need for a vague notion of smithing and casting jewelry isn't something that can be answered as asked. Casting jewelry isn't done using a furnace unless you're casting gang molds worth. A ring or two at a time has been done with an oil lamp, charcoal, etc. and a blow pipe since before history was invented. Take a jewelry class or maybe a casting class and at least learn how to do it reasonably safely. At your age you're going to take short cuts even if you know how to do it safely, it goes with the age. Doesn't make you a bad guy, it's normal as it gets, we were all there and luckily survived the teen years. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Many of us can show you scars however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryancrowe92 Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 14 hours ago, Frosty said: Ryan: You're going to hear this till you're sick of hearing it, I did as did everybody else reading this. We know you're 16 and immortal but you don't have any idea what you're talking about. You THINK you know enough to cast metal, THINK you can use a forge as a metal melter too. Some of us can but we've been doing this a long time. Think about it, you don't even know what questions to ask. What you have is an idea but no plan. Asking what kind of forge you need for a vague notion of smithing and casting jewelry isn't something that can be answered as asked. Casting jewelry isn't done using a furnace unless you're casting gang molds worth. A ring or two at a time has been done with an oil lamp, charcoal, etc. and a blow pipe since before history was invented. Take a jewelry class or maybe a casting class and at least learn how to do it reasonably safely. At your age you're going to take short cuts even if you know how to do it safely, it goes with the age. Doesn't make you a bad guy, it's normal as it gets, we were all there and luckily survived the teen years. Frosty The Lucky. OK here is the thing getting help from some one and getting certified is two different things, me personally i hate school well the English an literature i hate it i don't see why you need it after elementary school cause as long as you can read and write you should be able to do about anything, the math, science, and engineering is important, but unfortunately i am not invincible i wished to god i was but im not and this is Salem the only thing we have in this town is a school,library,rescue station,and a dollar general, and a couple of general stores i seem to like this brake drum forge so im gonna start with that it seems to be reasonable enough.and its not the jewelry that i want to do i hope to do some of the big stuff and the safety comes natural its just a thing i have gloves, sleeves, apron, helmet, goggles, etc, and god knows how many times Ive been burnt before but i rarely ever not use safety equipment unless like i just need to torch off a piece of metal something like that but i know what im doing cause i have been doing that before i started welding, and the wiring a plugin is just an example as long as you know what you are doing you can don anything but you can always get hurt no matter how experienced you are that never changes. and i know about the galvanized steel part ive known that since i started welding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutant Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 There's always a risk with anything you do. Some hobbies are more riskier than others. Understand those risks but more importantly, at 16, make sure your parents know as well. Do your research, ask question, and seek guidance. You'll do fine and have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WNC Goater Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 20 hours ago, ryancrowe92 said: i don't have a lot of money to get started, the melting is only for like projects for like rings and stuff when i have to have gold or bronze something like that and we take safety precautions... You mention melting for selling and melting for projects like rings, etc. (?) If that's what you're wanting to do, you don't need a forge. Get a melting dish with handle attachment, a couple of cast iron ingot molds. You mention welding equipment. An oxy-acetylene torch will melt any of those metals and they can be poured from the crucible/melting dish into an ingot. Take that ingot and hammer away. I would suggest a different melting dish for the different metals to avoid contamination. But if you're just wanting to melt metal as mentioned in the OP to resell ("...and be used to heat metal and melt it in a crucible if I want to sell some aluminum or gold, silver, etc.") Then there is no need to melt. In fact as mentioned, most of that aluminum a buyer would want to see what they are buying. Also, gold or silver is usually stamped as to purity, which will define what anyone is willing to pay (based on that purity). That would be selling to a buyer. Most precious metals however, would be sent to a refiner,(that's what a buyer will do with it) who would do a melt and assay and then pay out based on the amount and purity. So I'm not sure if you want to sell metal (no melting necessary) or melt gold, bronze, silver for making things like rings (melt with crucible & torch). Either way, a 3000° furnace or forge is unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryancrowe92 Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 2 hours ago, WNC Goater said: You mention melting for selling and melting for projects like rings, etc. (?) If that's what you're wanting to do, you don't need a forge. Get a melting dish with handle attachment, a couple of cast iron ingot molds. You mention welding equipment. An oxy-acetylene torch will melt any of those metals and they can be poured from the crucible/melting dish into an ingot. Take that ingot and hammer away. I would suggest a different melting dish for the different metals to avoid contamination. But if you're just wanting to melt metal as mentioned in the OP to resell ("...and be used to heat metal and melt it in a crucible if I want to sell some aluminum or gold, silver, etc.") Then there is no need to melt. In fact as mentioned, most of that aluminum a buyer would want to see what they are buying. Also, gold or silver is usually stamped as to purity, which will define what anyone is willing to pay (based on that purity). That would be selling to a buyer. Most precious metals however, would be sent to a refiner,(that's what a buyer will do with it) who would do a melt and assay and then pay out based on the amount and purity. So I'm not sure if you want to sell metal (no melting necessary) or melt gold, bronze, silver for making things like rings (melt with crucible & torch). Either way, a 3000° furnace or forge is unnecessary. actually i just came up with that idea for the torch; but the 3000F was using fire brick and cement, but decided to use brake drum for right now; and im considering this but i am low on gas so ill have to get them filled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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