Square Nail Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 After perusing this site night after night for weeks and trying to understand the basics of forge design, I am still as lost as I was when I started! So with this in mind I decided to build a forge and post the results, good and bad as the build progresses. I have decided to use Frosty's T burners and a modified Zoeller square tube forge. Not being a very good welder, I have had a local shop weld the basics of the box together leaving some of the less important aspects of the forge to my own devices! Please feel free to comment on things you like or don't like or suggestions of different ideas. I intend to document this build and post on here with enough pics to explain what I am talking about, showing my successes and failures. The first thing built were Frosty's T Burners. Using his instruction guide the process was fairly simple and straight forward. To elaborate a bit on some of his notes, the ridge on the center line of the T's can and will deflect a drill bit if you don't take extreme care to make sure the bit is centered. I found by filing a small flat spot before center punching for the hole makes it a little easier to stay accurate. As you can see by this picture that all though the fitting is straight up and down it is still offset to the left. Had to redo During this process and not wanting to spend a million dollars on a learning curve by buying all black pipe, I tried soaking galvanized fittings in vinegar to see if they were a viable option. The galvanized were $6.00 while the Black are $17.00. As you can see the T on the left is a Galvanized fitting soaked for 36 hours in vinegar with the black one on the right. Was finally successful in getting a couple of decent 3/4" T burners. Still not sure whether I will use the Schedule 80 3" nipple with the Tweco .035 tip or the Brass fitting. The last picture shows how I adapted Frosty's idea of the floor flange and bolting it to the table on my drill press. So far it seems to work pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Nail Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 After getting the forge body back, the next step for me was to mock up the whole affair and see how my ideas would play out. Still trying to decide if I want to hinge the front, but plan on putting some tabs on the back for some adjustment. The burners are 4" apart. The next pictures are of the plumbing from a main shut-off through a gauge (I haven't found a good gauge yet) then to the manifold with a shut-off for one burner so you don't need to run both if you don't need to. The pipe is 1/8" black pipe to 1/4" flared copper. The regulator is just off the tank and not shown here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welder74 Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Wow it looks a lot like mine. I'm new to all this too I have turned it on and heated up some railroad spikes. It works good I just don't think it's getting hot enough idk. But I didn't insulate and I should have cause 4 hrs after shut down it is still so hot you can't even touch it. If you look at my burners I made the jets from oilfield heater treater burners and they work awesome they already have the perfect hole in them but I opened them up to 3/64. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockmaker Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 I'd say you learned something by reading this forum. I hope you are going to insulate, without it you will only heat to a dull orange at best. Looks good, let us know how the burners perform. You may need to rotate your burners slightly to allow each T to gets it's own air. I would have them facing across the forge to avoid gas's from the doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Nail Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 7 hours ago, stockmaker said: I'd say you learned something by reading this forum. I hope you are going to insulate, without it you will only heat to a dull orange at best. Looks good, let us know how the burners perform. You may need to rotate your burners slightly to allow each T to gets it's own air. I would have them facing across the forge to avoid gas's from the doors. As it stands now, I intend to use two layers of 1" Duraboard with a refractory coating of an undecided nature yet. Probably will use some type of fire brick for the floor. 1" Duraboard on both the door and back end also. With the forge being 10X16 this should leave me with about 480 Cubic inches of forge area, which 2 - 3/4" T burners good for around 700 inches should be plenty! May end up dropping to 1/2" burners later! Thanks for the tip on turning the burners! I had thought about that but wasn't sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 You tells em and you tells em but they still . . . <sigh> No bricks! Hard fire brick is a heat sink and insulates only slightly better than limestone. Either coat it with hard water set refractory, Wayne Coe sells small quantities for reasonable. Or lay a high alumina kiln shelf for the floor. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 From the Insulate or not to insulate thread... I cut it with a diamond blade for my skill saw. Make sure to wear a good respirator. Ideally a wet tile saw would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Nail Posted May 22, 2017 Author Share Posted May 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Frosty said: You tells em and you tells em but they still . . . <sigh> No bricks! Hard fire brick is a heat sink and insulates only slightly better than limestone. Either coat it with hard water set refractory, Wayne Coe sells small quantities for reasonable. Or lay a high alumina kiln shelf for the floor. Frosty The Lucky. Sorry Frosty, I had the idea that with 1 layer of the Duraboard under the fire brick that it would would be OK. So thanks for setting me straight. Two layers all the way around with the coating for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 22, 2017 Share Posted May 22, 2017 1 hour ago, Square Nail said: Sorry Frosty, I had the idea that with 1 layer of the Duraboard under the fire brick that it would would be OK. So thanks for setting me straight. Two layers all the way around with the coating for me! With 2" of Duraboard insulation isn't an issue but fire brick is still a serious heat sink and it's susceptible to borax based flux. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Nail Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 This is the completed forge box with hinged front and adjustable rear. Just need some cleanup and paint, and some insulation (which is proving to be very difficult to get) and it is ready for final assembly and testing. These are the hinges I fabricated for the front This is the adjustable back, This view is from the back showing the front open and the rear in the closed position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Looks pretty good. What's the problem getting (I assume) ceramic blanket refractory? Haven't I relayed the hot trick for getting it free enough times? I haven't paid for any in at least 20 years. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Nail Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Frosty said: Looks pretty good. What's the problem getting (I assume) ceramic blanket refractory? Haven't I relayed the hot trick for getting it free enough times? I haven't paid for any in at least 20 years. Frosty The Lucky. I must have missed your hot trick! I finally found a company six hours away from me that will sell me a sheet of Kaowool but won't ship. I live in a very rural area ( There is not one single stop light in the whole county!) Which has been an issue on everything I do. I am also a woodworker and experience the same issues with trying to find exotic wood species. I'm sure I can order Kast O Lite and rigidizer with out a problem but the duraboard or blanket is proving tough to get. Probably have to take a couple day buying trip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Open the yellow pages (paper book!) and find a: HVAC, furnace, boiler, etc. service company. Give them a call and see if they use 8lb. ceramic blanket refractory to repair furnaces, etc. Code in the USA says they must use new ceramic blanket off a roll, not rems from another job. HVAC service companies must by law toss it in the dumpster and for a box of donuts and friendly conversation will usually let you have what you want. The guys I buy refractories from in Anchorage, "Distribution International" load me up on 30 gl. trash bags full when I drop by. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Nail Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Frosty said: Open the yellow pages (paper book!) and find a: HVAC, furnace, boiler, etc. service company. Give them a call and see if they use 8lb. ceramic blanket refractory to repair furnaces, etc. Code in the USA says they must use new ceramic blanket off a roll, not rems from another job. HVAC service companies must by law toss it in the dumpster and for a box of donuts and friendly conversation will usually let you have what you want. The guys I buy refractories from in Anchorage, "Distribution International" load me up on 30 gl. trash bags full when I drop by. Frosty The Lucky. I will have to give that a try! There is a HVAC Service company just an hour away! Thanks for the tip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 The one in Anchorage is an hour from me too. Remember the donuts and be nice to the secretary! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Nail Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 Always be nice to secretaries! they just about run the planet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 May never happen, but how are you set up with the front door that if the piece you're forging gets to a shape that won't fit through the opening, to be able to open the front door and have it safely stay open when everything is hot as blazes, so you can finish the last bit of forging on the piece? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Wayne Coe sells refractories to fellow smiths and ships (at least in the USA---I don't have a clue what country YOU are in!) http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/Forge_Supplies.html He usually gets a chunk of my "excess cash" at Quad-State as I live in New Mexico USA and so a bit remote by many people's standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Nail Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 2 hours ago, John in Oly, WA said: May never happen, but how are you set up with the front door that if the piece you're forging gets to a shape that won't fit through the opening, to be able to open the front door and have it safely stay open when everything is hot as blazes, so you can finish the last bit of forging on the piece? Hopefully I will be aware enough to have it opened and fixed in place before starting it up. The hinges are made with nut and bolt to tighten them into place, that holds it well now, but time will tell if it will hold up in use. I will eventually make a hook and eye arrangement that would hold it in place, but haven't got that far yet. You do bring up something I hadn't thought of though. A quick easy way to grab the front and lift it while hot! Maybe a handle or knob, something that can be grabbed easy with tongs, this could be used also on the back. Thanks John. 1 hour ago, ThomasPowers said: Wayne Coe sells refractories to fellow smiths and ships (at least in the USA---I don't have a clue what country YOU are in!) http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/Forge_Supplies.html He usually gets a chunk of my "excess cash" at Quad-State as I live in New Mexico USA and so a bit remote by many people's standards. Thanks Thomas, I live in Oregon, That was county not country. I looked up Mr. Coe's site last night. He will be my go to if the tip Frosty gave me doesn't pan out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 You're welcome. Only reason I mentioned it, was something similar happened to me - as I was forging a piece, the shape wouldn't fit back through the opening into the forge and I had to scramble to make the opening bigger to keep on forging. In my case, it meant moving some hot bricks around that I hadn't set up to move very easily and without anything appropriate to grab them with. Handles are good. Maybe a removable hook kind of handle that hooks into a small loop or something. So you don't have a permanent attached handle that's sticking out maybe in the way. Knowing me, though, I'd misplace the removable handle just when I needed it. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 I would put a small tab on the door to grab with tongs to open it when hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Nail Posted May 26, 2017 Author Share Posted May 26, 2017 Thank you Irondragon for the idea. Maybe I could use the tab as an anchor point to hold the door open! Gives me "stuff" to think about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mberghorn Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 Just a thought but you could also weld an eyelet on to the front to one side of the opening and have a latch that catches when you raise it up. That way you don't have to worry about slipping off the tab with your tongs or losing the removable handle. Just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daninghram Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 wood and pellet stove shops often have ceramic blanket refractory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 26, 2017 Share Posted May 26, 2017 County/Country I don't see where you have edited your profile to show either! We strongly suggest you put in a general location; sure helps with MANY smithing questions and allows for the odd "I'm in the same area, stop by some day"s Now as was mentioned If you are using loose firebricks as part of a forge you really need a set of hot firebrick tongs! I adapted mine from one of the crudest and ugliest set of home made pulloffs (wouldn't work as nippers even though there is high carbon steel forge welded to the ends) Anyway I think I have US$1 in buying them and a couple of heats for each side reforging them and they work a treat for moving hot firebrick. I'll try to get a picture of them next time I'm collocated so folks can make gorgeous versions of their own and taunt me with them here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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