How many nails in a horse shoe?

[Glenn]

I have heard 7 nails per shoe, but have read numbers from 4 to 10 nails per shoe. The number may change with the breed of horse, heavies using more nails than a small horse, and the type work the horse is expected to do.

How many nails are used to attach a horse shoe to a hoof? And why.

[notownkid]

as you said it would depend a lot on the size of the horse and size of the shoe and also the condition of the hoof.  There  are different size nails.  So all that said MOST shoes I've used or had attached to many different size horses over 55+ yrs had 7 nails, mostly because I was taught that way and all my Farriers were from the same family,  3 on the inside and 4 on the outside.  Some of our really big draft horses had 7-9 nails.  Oxen 3 usually.  We had some pulling ponies that had 6. 

I watched a farrier a couple yrs. ago at a NE Blacksmith event make a shoe from bar stock and he only put 7 holes in it  and as he mainly makes each shoe he places the holes where the horse needs them instead of where the factory makes them.  Sounded reasonable to me.  Like us going to buy a pair of boots it is best to get the ones that fit instead ones the boots salesperson said should fit. 

[Frank Turley]

A story. Bob Gerkin, RIP, operated his horseshoeing school in Houston, Texas. He was in the army in WW II, stationed in Southeast Asia and because he was a horseshoer, he and some fellow shoers were assigned to shoe pack string animals for our war effort. They didn't have much material to work with except horse drawn wagons, forges, anvils, and hand tools. According to Gerkin, their horseshoes were made out of "anything we could drag up." So, on the road, they were always looking for scrap iron and steel to forge into horseshoes. Horseshoe nails was another matter. They couldn't order the manufactured nails that they were used to using. The big brand name back in the states was Capewell, and riding horse size was normally a #5. They found a Chinese man who was a professional horseshoe nail maker. It turns out that he was a man without legs. They made a deal with him so that they could haul him by wagon wherever they were going. When they put up camp and went to work, they lifted him out and sat him on the ground with his box bellows/forge and anvil. He would go to work making nails. The horseshoe nail was rectangular shanked, had a tapered head and a slight bevel at the pointed end. The bevel when properly done, would allow the nail to curve slightly and emerge from the side of the hoof wall where it would be nipped and a little projection would be clinched. The nail is made of low carbon steel.

I tell this story because it reveals the resourcefulness that some of our troops had when faced with a situation. I think of the nail maker also. He must have been able to work in a meditative state realizing that this was his life, and he would do what it takes to make that life worthwhile.

[notownkid]

Fabulous story Frank.  People have little knowledge of these things or what made the war arrive at a successful end (for us at least).  I met a man a few yrs. ago who like my father was a Combat Glider Pilot but he flew into and out of Burma being towed on a 300' rope over the hub carrying among other things Army Mules into hand made landing strips then clean out the glider and load wounded back in, he would then stretch his 300'  tow line between to tall poles and a C-47 would fly over with a hook on the tail like the landing hook on Navy planes snatch onto the tow line and yank him into the air and tow him back to India.  These strips were cleared by the local Chinese peasants to help the war effort. If caught by the invading Japanese these peasants were slaughtered  for helping the Allies.  Most of these stories are being lost from neglect of our higher education facilities who can't be bothered with history older than today. 

Thanks for you repeating this Frank.

 

[Frank Turley]

Notown, Thanks for your story, as well. Who knows? Bob Gerkin might have been shoeing those mules that were flown in.

[Daswulf]

Thank you both for the great stories. I agree we (the general public) never hear them or know much about it. It's great to get some insight.

[Tubalcain2]

with keg shoes we generally do 8, unless one needs to be left out for the sake a crack etc. some smaller shoes and mule shoes use 6.

[seldom (dick renker)]

great stories, frank and notownkid. as tubalcain2 said usually 8 but often times less depending

[notownkid]

I Had breakfast today with my former Farrier, we no longer have horses, I asked him Glenn's question and learned a few new things.  He comes from a long line of Farriers, 3 generations I know of with uncles and now cousins all in the mix.  He said he has started using 6 nails in resent yrs. along with smaller size nails and two of his cousins have found that with side and toe clips they only need 4!  Now these guys do a lot of endurance horses some wear through shoes in 3 weeks!  they also do a lot of 3 day event horses doing  cross country courses that are unbelievable.  They Have had no problems with these. 

Now just to add things to the mix in their Farrier Course I was told Cornell University is teaching their students  Gluing on shoes!  First I've heard of this.  He also says that just because keg shoes come with 8-10 holes doesn't mean  that many nails are needed or desired  just it gives ability to have a good spot to get  nails into a bad foot.  From this I would say there may not be a complete answer to Glenn's question.       

[seldom (dick renker)]

notownkid, thats one of the newer methods for feet that are a mess and cant get good nailing though i never had to resort to that. heck it wasnt even thought of when i was shoeing. i went to  a seminar last year and the demonstrator did a lot of sanding on the hoof wall to polish it. i made the comment that if i did that i would have been told not to come back. several other older guys agreed with me.

[notownkid]

Seldom    Like about everything else today the horse world has changed unbelievable in the last 20 yrs.  Far too  many people with horses that know nothing about a horse only the recent books and new theories and in a lot of cases more money than knowledge.  This family of farriers are all in their late 30s and up to mid 50s now and good enough so they  pick their customers to keep and have sent the "Polish the hoof" bunch down the road to someone else.       Can't wait to see a glued shoe. 

[seldom (dick renker)]

yes it certainly has changed. back in the 70's when a horse lived to 20 or so it was real old. just last week we put down one of our family members that was just a few days shy of 34. my farrier tells me he still does horses that are in their 40's/. so like us the care is getting better in some cases. but it is very true that there are more people with horses that have more money than brains. not too many "horsemen" around.

[notownkid]

3 hours ago, seldom (dick renker) said:

not too many "horsemen" around.

Soooooo True. 

[George Geist]

Glue may have a place, although I've not found it yet. IMO it's a solution in search of a problem.

George

[notownkid]

I would  have a hard time using glue myself.  I will be doing some more research on this.  Someone said they heard it was being used on Aluminum race shoes?? 

[George Geist]

Yes, 

It adheres best to aluminum. Is being used in some limited circumstances. I think unnecessarily for the most part but usually with deep pocketed outfits. It can be a money maker if they don't mind taking two days vis a vis a half hour to get the horse shod.

Biggest drawback is if a horse blows one in the paddock the blacksmith cant fix it. Horse is scratched.

[seldom (dick renker)]

My understanding for this was to be mainly used for horses that had a problem with the hoof wall that made for difficult or impossible nailing. But like most fixes it was discovered to be a real cash cow tho expensive to get the parts. probably took more thought out of the equation as well.

[George Geist]

4 hours ago, seldom (dick renker) said:

My understanding for this was to be mainly used for horses that had a problem with the hoof wall that made for difficult or impossible nailing. But like most fixes it was discovered to be a real cash cow tho expensive to get the parts. probably took more thought out of the equation as well.

True enough, additionally it has the negative drawback of making it possible for horses to be working that ought to be resting, and people to be shoeing who ought to be plying a different trade.

George

[notownkid]

I can see it being used by a certain crowd of horse owners (notice owners not horseman) that firmly believe that nailing a shoe on Hurts the Horse.  Been in on those conversations for 55+ years now.  Can see some farriers cashing in on this.  Also will cut out the need for Hot Shoeing, which many  will  tell you, causes Excruciating Pain to the Horse.   

[Frank Turley]

The drawings are a little sloppy. Forgive me. I attended a shoeing school in Oregon in 1964, no longer there. Charles "Dick" Dickenson was the instructor, and his method of laying out six nail holes for a single shoe I share with you. First, you should know that the hoof wall as viewed from the bottom varies in thickness, being thicker at the toe and thinner as it approaches the heel. Immediately inside the hoof wall is some connective tissue called the white line, about 1/8" thick or so. The white line isn't always white; sometimes, it has a yellowish color; sometimes a little red or orange can be noticed. In any event, the nail goes into the white line which is insensitive where the nail enters. As viewed from the bottom, the white line separates the hoof wall from the sole. Dick had us space the nails as shown, because these were usually specimen shoes which were not to be nailed on a live animal. He figured the "average" wall thickness including the white line was 1/2" somewhat near the toe and 1/4" just below the bend of the quarter, the widest part of the foot. The riding horse shoe was normally made of 5/16" x 3/4" stock.

The shoe, when blanked out, could be placed on the anvil with the line of stride parallel to the anvil step. The toe will overhang the far anvil edge leaving 1/8" daylight between the inner aspect of the toe-center and the anvil. When done, the anvil edge will indicate the toe nail layout. Then, coming in 1/2" from the outer border of the shoe somewhat toward the shoe center, you intersect the envisioned anvil line. That's where the toe nail is placed. The heel nail is !/4" in from the outer border of the shoe just a tad toward the heel from the widest part of the shoe. For the middle nail placement, split the difference between toe and heel nail and make it 5/16" in from the outer edge of the shoe.

The hoof has some expansion and contraction, especially in the heel area. It has to do with weight bearing. The expansion occurs with the weight load and the contraction takes place when the hoof is lifted from the ground. A newly pulled used shoe will show small shiny wear patterns near the heel extremities where the hoof wall has been widening and narrowing. This natural occurrence is good for the horse, and the shoer doesn't want to constrict it, so no nails are driven back in the heel area.

I've drawn a shoe blank to show the difference between a front and hind shape. The blank is the hind shape, a little more "pointed" than the front shoe. The front shoe is more full and rounding than the hind shoe.

 

[Ranchmanben]

It looks like it's been covered here but I use four on the outside and three on the inside. If I'm going to be riding in rocky country I use four and four. No idea where this comes from, it was just how I was taught. I'm not a pro, I only nail iron on my horses and those of the ranch I work for. These are ranch horses and only a few of them get ridden weekly if not daily. The other couple I keep shod in case the owner or their kids want to come out and tool around. During the winter I only keep shoes on a couple of my own work horses. 

[notownkid]

it would appear this is one of those subjects where there are plenty of ideas & opinions along with experiences to make each one correct in their users  minds and for each ones' applications weather it is 10 nails or 7 or 4 or glue to be all correct as long as the shoes stays on and the horse goes straight down the road/trail.  

 

There is the old story about "for the want of a nail a shoe is lost, for the want of the shoe a horse was lost, for want of a horse a soldier was lost, etc. till the war was lost."  So horse shoe nails are not and were not a trivial matter. 

Just My Opinion!

[seldom (dick renker)]

just like blacksmiths, ask 10 smith the same question and get 15 different answers, all correct.

[jlpservicesinc]

I use 4 nails per shoe total on all horses up to a size 3shoe.. But I also use side clips..  Believe it or not 4 nails keep the shoes on longer than I'd like on hunters and jumpers with studs in the shoes,   This is at the Olympic level..  Most jumps are in the 3-6ft range 3 or 4 times a week..  

It really becomes how well balanced the feet are and what part of the foot is striking the earth first..   

I am not a fan of glue on shoes as the glues eat hoof wall faster than a dog..  

I have 1 customer left in shoes as I have converted 99% of my customers over to barefoot..  Better for the horse and once you understand how the hoof grows and functions navicular and other type problems disappear over time as these are created from a lack of Caudal and sole support.. 

[jiHymas]

On April 2, 2017 at 8:35 AM, notownkid said:

 So all that said MOST shoes I've used or had attached to many different size horses over 55+ yrs had 7 nails, mostly because I was taught that way and all my Farriers were from the same family,  3 on the inside and 4 on the outside.

Thank you for this. I have two horse-brasses that each show three horse-shoes with seven holes, 4-3. Now I know they're right-horse-shoes, assuming they're pictured from above! I note that the county flag of Rutland (United Kingdom) shows a left-horse-shoe (if viewed from above).

If anybody can supply a more conventionally authoritative source than 'a post I saw on the internet', I would appreciate it!