SLAG Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Mod Note: The thread was retitled to better reflect the content. By JOVE !!!, Fellow technology & metallurgy enthusiasts, Technology developments are coming fast and furious. A French consortium has just announced an exciting new tech. development. Would you believe a solar energy collecting road surface? I kid you not! Road surfaces are used only 20% of the time by cars. The rest of the time they just sit there . So collecting solar energy is a good second job. We, in these United States have enough roads to do the job. Please consult this reference, for further details. http://phys.org/news/2016-12-road-paved-solar-panels-powers.html We wish you all a very merry Christmas, and a wonderful, healthy, and prosperous new year. Regards to all, SLAG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 A scientist with the user name Thunderf00t has posted a film on you tube shooting down solar roadways a year or two back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 An excellent idea. At 10 times the cost of rooftop solar panels, a technology that is only feasible with massive state subsidies, solar roads will need trillions of dollars of subsidies to be even remotely feasible. An army of subsidised factories, with an army of overpaid lobbyist, managers, do gooders and assorted cheer leaders leading the charge against our wallet. I love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 WAYNE, Thank you for the heads up. I suspect that the French technologists are aware of it and have taken it into account. Regards, SLAG. __ __ __ __ __ MARC1, The article did intimate that the technology was not yet "road worthy' for regular use. Improvements are necessary in order to make the concept practical and affordable. Also, many climates would probably not be suitable. For example where there is snow cover, such as much of Canada and the Northern U.S.A. (but the southwest ... ). Thanks fellas for your interest and input. You are formally invited to join our merry sub-group of enthusiasts. There are NO dues. Regards, SLAG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 57 minutes ago, Marc1 said: An excellent idea. At 10 times the cost of rooftop solar panels, a technology that is only feasible with massive state subsidies, solar roads will need trillions of dollars of subsidies to be even remotely feasible. An army of subsidised factories, with an army of overpaid lobbyist, managers, do gooders and assorted cheer leaders leading the charge against our wallet. I love it! Interesting post. Why don't they just level the playing field with a fixed rate per kilowatt? Although I have always argued for net metering for domestic solar generation we do get this silly 50p per kilowatt hour payment which is unsustainable as far as I can see. It has paid for our panel installation in under 7 years. However it is only chicken feed compared to the guaranteed 90p per kilowatt hour that is available for those kilowatts created by the Chinese owned nuclear energy projects in this country. While the nuclear industry apparently received over 90% of the non fossil fuel subsidy (set up to support it when all the other power stations were privatised) it is interesting that all the complaints about green energy taxes over here are now blamed on subsidies to solar, wind and wave. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 Mr. Evans, The cost of photovoltaic cells is dropping month by month. Important new advances seem to be announced roughly every eight weeks on average. Soon solar power will be competitive with nuclear energy and also, hydroelectric power in many places. This disruptive technology has already happened to the coal industry in the last decade or so. Shale hydrocarbons and advanced hydro fracking has delivered energy to power plants at (if my memory serves me correctly) a third or quarter the price. I posted an article on this development sometime during the past summer. I hope the whole I.F.I. family has had a wonderful Christmas day. (Chanukah too). SLAG. Proud member in good standing of the Honorable I.F.I. Technology and Metallurgy sub-group. All I.F.I. members are welcome to join. (remember there are no dues!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 I think that since political post are not allowed, it is unfair to post green anti-CO2 propaganda that is fundamentally political and not even remotely technological. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Posting information is what the site is about. It is the political comments that are not allowed as we want to concentrate on blacksmithing. Technology is in constant change. For instance we have moved from fire welding, forge welding, and now use arc welders such as stick, mig, and tig and never give it a second thought. We have moved from heating with wood, to charcoal, to coal, to coke, and now are using induction heating more and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Of course Glenn. However Solar power generation just like wind power and the rest of the expensive inefficient and unreliable sources that require way more energy to be manufactured than they will ever produce not to mention pollution from the additional mining and manufacturing ... exists purely based on a false hypothesis that has a political agenda of redistribution of power and resources. Therefore "good news" articles of yet another red herring aimed at extracting more taxpayers money for an obscure elite is just that. Political propaganda. Adding to the post an invitation to "join us" mocks the reader that is aware of the duplicitous strategies used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Any time someone reads an article and then post the link to the forum brings the membership more information. Were "good news" articles designed for extracting money from the obscure elite? No, the articles just made the information available for all to read. Just because you look at the menu does not mean you have to order the meal. Yes, new ideas and concepts usually come with a higher initial price. Radios used to be the size of a kitchen cabinet, and with the transistor, shrink to something you could carry in your hand. Photography used to be expensive, and now you can buy a digital camera and shoot thousands of photos at no cost. Digital cameras (actually two cameras, front and back) are low cost enough that they put them in cell phones. Quote: France on Thursday inaugurated the world's first "solar highway", a road paved with solar panels providing enough energy to power the street lights of the small Normandy town of Tourouvre. I recall reading where they are using pressure materials in a highway to generate electric. Yes it is new, yes it is expensive, No you do not have to put it in your drive way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 I wish it was that simple Glenn. The reality is that we are all paying for this extravagant political fraud. Sure we need new sources of energy but not to reduce CO2 from 0.04% to 0.038% when only a few hundred millions years ago it was hundred times that. We would like to see one that can stand on it's own feet and that works day and night wind and no wind so that it can be an alternative and not a fanciful addition only to fall back to coal when the sun don't shine or the wind stops blowing. As it is, sun or wind will never be a genuine alternative simply due to the vagaries of the source of power. Geothermal? Yes, Hydro? Sure Something new? i am waiting with baited breath. But it's Christmas after all and the Christmas tree is green too. Hooroo Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Then we are not going to solve the issue in a short time frame. Much like fire maintenance, you can burn coal and produce a smoke screen that would make the Nave proud, or punch a hole in the top of the coal (think volcano) and let the fire escape, burning most of the smoke. Let us bring the discussion to an end, before the mods awake from slumber, and want to get in on the discussion (grin). We do keep trying to find a solution, eagerly and anxiously waiting for a break through in technology. All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Funny that so many of the criticisms of non-fossil-fuel energy generation contain complaints about subsidies for high development costs, but rarely (if ever) factor in the billions of dollars in subsidies received by the oil and gas industries or mention the armies of lawyers and lobbyists those industries pay to protect their interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Sent via email Article dated December 26, 2016 Solar and wind is now the same price or cheaper than new fossil fuel capacity in more than 30 countries, the WEF reported in December. As prices for solar and wind power continue their precipitous fall, two-thirds of all nations will reach the point known as “grid parity” within a few years, even without subsidies. “Renewable energy has reached a tipping point,” Michael Drexler, who leads infrastructure and development investing at the WEF, said in a statement. It is not only a commercially viable option, but an outright compelling investment opportunity with long-term, stable, inflation-protected returns. Those numbers are already translating into vast new acres of silicon and glass. In 2016, utilities added 9.5 gigawatts (GW)of photovoltaic capacity to the US grid, making solar the top fuel source for the first time in a calendar year, according to the US Energy Information. Those numbers are already translating into vast new acres of silicon and glass. In 2016, utilities added 9.5 gigawatts (GW) of photovoltaic capacity to the US grid, making solar the top fuel source for the first time in a calendar year, according to the administration estimates. The US added about 125 solar panels every minute in 2016, about double the pace last year, reports the Solar Energy Industry Association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 On 26/12/2016 at 9:49 AM, Marc1 said: I wish it was that simple Glenn. The reality is that we are all paying for this extravagant political fraud. Sure we need new sources of energy but not to reduce CO2 from 0.04% to 0.038% when only a few hundred millions years ago it was hundred times that. We would like to see one that can stand on it's own feet and that works day and night wind and no wind so that it can be an alternative and not a fanciful addition only to fall back to coal when the sun don't shine or the wind stops blowing. As it is, sun or wind will never be a genuine alternative simply due to the vagaries of the source of power. Geothermal? Yes, Hydro? Sure Something new? i am waiting with baited breath. But it's Christmas after all and the Christmas tree is green too. Hooroo Marc I think the energy source problem is very simple mathematics. Not sure where your political fraud comes in. Fossil fuels are a finite resource. It seems to me to make sense to conserve and eke out that resource by any means we can. Using Solar or Wind or Water, even if they are inconstant, and even if they are less economic in the current market, can make a contribution and reduce the fossil fuels burnt. When the fossil fuels do finally run out, it is not the time to commence using more energy to develop alternatives...do it now whilst we can do it cheaply. What is the problem with generating with solar when it is daylight and windmills when it is windy...and burn coal when it is not? Why dismiss their contribution because they don't conform to, or match the versatility of the fossil fuel model? Their overwhelming advantage is they are renewable which fossil fuels cannot match. In fact they will enable us to have power at night and on windless days for longer if they enable us to use less fossil fuel when it is daylight and windy...different, not better or worse. Alan This makes for an interesting few minutes... http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 fair warning... the NEXT post even mentioning politics or any political something or other is gonna feel the wrath of the mods. this is not a threat I do not threaten. it is a promise. the options and ideas of alternate energy are always political sady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Pivoting towards the blacksmithing aspect of things, if indeed fossil fuels do move out of the picture, we're all going to need to switch our forging from coal and gas to charcoal and electric induction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 12 hours ago, Steve Sells said: the options and ideas of alternate energy are always political sadly Aaaah ... finally ... the voice of reason ... thank you Steve. I rest my case (civil case) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Perhaps I should have phrased it, Talking about alternate energy always gets political..... I was taking about how politics gets in the way of what is tried what is not. I like the idea solar power, there is nothing wrong with Solar power, but govt has no way to control that so its pushed aside. As smiths we dont have much to do with that so we need to forget govt and yak about smithing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 11 hours ago, JHCC said: Pivoting towards the blacksmithing aspect of things, if indeed fossil fuels do move out of the picture, we're all going to need to switch our forging from coal and gas to charcoal and electric induction. When perhaps the oil reserve is a tad low, unless more is discovered, we have coal for another 1000 years at the current rate of electricity use, may be more. The alternatives as it stands today are geothermal hydro and nuclear. The rest are toys for the caffe latte society to talk about. There will always be coal for a forge providing there is still someone digging it out of the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 The thread is closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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