omegabrock

coffee can forge

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everything i have read has suggested a bernzomatic jth7 torch for a burner...the problem is, i can't find that lol. or is jth7 the proper name for propane? i get links to bernzomatic burners but the only actual hits to jth7 are links to people recommending to use it. would any propane torch work?

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I have zero idea. It could well be a regional thing. "Everything" you have read is written in a different country and that model isn't offered where EVER you live.

If you'll put your general location in the header you might discover there are Iforge members within visiting distance. Better for your question someone who can tell you what to buy where ever you live.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I'm in South Carolina. I guess just a simplified question, is there really a big difference in the burners kits from lowes or Home Depot, or other shops that I need to pay attention to? 

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Your general location IN THE HEADER. just telling us in one post isn't going to last in anyone's memory once we open another post. Worse, after a little while we'll just stop asking, if you don't care why should we?

What kind of Bernzomatic torch do you want to use? Are you planning on using hand held soldering cylinder or hooking it to a propane bottle, say 20lb. or larger?

I just picked up a new Bernzmatic torch at Home Depot for searing meat and making creme broule, my kitchen torch was old and unreliable. I won't have an unreliable propane torch in the house so it lives in the shop now. Anyway, Home Depot had a whole wrack full of different propane soldering torches. The local commercial hardware store has a much larger selection than big box stores.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Haha yeah I was thinking the title and that didn't make sense so I figured I would just throw it out in the comment where I am and then update the profile at my computer. 

 

I was planning on hooking it to a 20# bottle. would a soldering torch get it hot enough?

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Good Morning, Omega

There are Soldering Torches and then there are the Soldering Torches that Plumbers use. The inexpensive Torches do not have a very efficient Air Inlet, read, They don't draw enough Air to burn very hot. A one or two brick Forge wants a good  Butane/Mapp/Propane Burner. A Coffee Can Forge wants a better Burner, yet again.

We have a good Memory, just short. Where are you in North Carolina???LOL

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HA! I'm near Columbia. 

i guess I just assumed that a soldering torch would be too small. I did a little hospital equipment repair work years ago working with solder and copper pipes. I never really heated anything up past what was needed to join the pieces together haha. Guess I'll check into some specs tomorrow when I head to the store. 

 

What are some ways to judge the quality? Should I look for just the highest btu in my price range? Are the btu specs listed usually accurate for everyday use? Or is there something else I should look for? 

 

Sorry for such the beginner questions, I'm completely green here and almost everything I've read has involved having some type of previous knowledge. 

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Good Morning,

Jerry (Frosty) was asking you to make your location change to your Avatar on your personal info page. I know it is a little thing, but it is a HUGE help.

Previous Knowledge = Miss Steaks  There are no Miss Steaks, just Unplanned Consequences OR That is exactly how I planned it!! Is the Glass Half Full, or......

Heat is Heat. Not enough Heat is Cold. Too much Heat is a Lesson on what knot to do!! Check out what Plumber Suppliers have for the Plumbers. Not enough Heat, is a waste of Thyme!!

Neil

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9 hours ago, swedefiddle said:

Good Morning,

Jerry (Frosty) was asking you to make your location change to your Avatar on your personal info page. I know it is a little thing, but it is a HUGE help.

Previous Knowledge = Miss Steaks  There are no Miss Steaks, just Unplanned Consequences OR That is exactly how I planned it!! Is the Glass Half Full, or......

Heat is Heat. Not enough Heat is Cold. Too much Heat is a Lesson on what knot to do!! Check out what Plumber Suppliers have for the Plumbers. Not enough Heat, is a waste of Thyme!!

Neil

Once again Neil proves he's a well seasoned smith and anise guy to boot.

Don't worry about trying to find the perfect or even best torch a bean can or coffee can forge is small scale a hand held Bernzomatic a 4,000 is enough. An old friend forged pattern welded knives on the 9th. floor of his retirement condo with an entire kit that'd fit in a suit case in his closet. His forge was a 2lb. coffee can and when he needed enough heat to weld a billet he switched to MAPP gas but did general forging and lighter welds with propane.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

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Oh wow awesome. So basically I have been overthinking it haha. The long term goal would be some Damascus but I still need to learn the basics so it will be a while for that lol...and hopefully I'll have a lot better setup by then

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I would suggest putting together the worlds easiest to build burner in a 1/2" size: the Frosty "T" burner. You will find instructions and several guys on here who have built one successfully. Any other choice will take a lot more work and study than a coffee-can furnace justifies. You are not going to find a suitable torch for a coffee-can forge at any piece, and the only good commercial burners are big $$$; you could buy the whole forge for what they cost.

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MAPP gas works better than propane in a little coffee can forge. A plumbers torch with a hose is a great addition to the set up.

No welding and I wouldn't want to work more than 1/2 inch stock in here.  It also gets expensive, with the cost of disposable cylinders.  MAPP is getting harder to find nowadays (on the Left Coast anyway) and I look in garages and under workbenches at estate sales, for yellow MAPP cylinders. The safer, but cooler MAPP/Pro will still heat metal.

A bit sturdier than a coffee can, this was welded together at the Community College "Art Welding" class (best access to equipment and scrap that a budding smith can find!)

DSCN1969.JPG

DSCN1931.JPG

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MAPP gas hasn't been made since 2008; what is sold as MAPP in those 16 oz. canisters is propylene, which burns within fifty degrees of MAPP anyway. You can buy propylene at most welding supply stores by purchasing an industrial cylinder for it; the cost is usually about one third more than propane; instead of three times propane's price in canister form.

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If you want to go with a Bernzo, check out the TS4000 or TS7000. They are designed very similar to an NA burner, and I've been using mine for months with great success. 

Good Luck

Viking

IMG_3508.JPG

Torch (1).JPG

Torch (2).JPG

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very good responses here. thanks for the information. mikey, i don't think i am comfortable building my own burner yet. it is definitely on my to do list though.

digression - when i first decided to get into this, it was simply from watching our farrier shape horseshoes. i thought how cool it was. long-story-short, i wanted to learn how to form metal. im a mechanic by trade so i enjoy working with my hands. i have decent experience in woodworking. i thought "oh, i can just buy what i need and start forging"...i have learned that i can learn to literally make every tool i need and i am excited about it...

michael - i saw a couple of posts about mapp being a safety issue so i havent really checked into that except that the map/pro burners can also use propane for fuel but propane burners can't always use map so i was planning on going with the former for versatility. 

 

viking -  looking at that, i think i would want something a little bigger like a paint can, even just starting out. i was thinking about the 8000 because it comes with a hose and it's still relatively cheap. 

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another question i have that i havent been able to find anything on searching the forums...

 

i know that forge stands are the standard, but if you have a solid base and a solid workbench, is there any drawback to placing the forge on it? besides the obvious space being taken up. i don't think i have seen any set up with their anvil and forge on the same table, so i wanted to see if there were any other concerns about that i needed to take into account.

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That depends on a couple things.  If your forge is well insulated it won't transfer much heat to whatever it's sitting on anyway, but if it is separated you know you won't be losing additional heat that way.  The other thing has to do with how flammable the surface is that the forge rests on.  Keep in mind that you will have flames coming out of your opening(s), so you want to minimize/eliminate direct flame contact (or even close proximity) with anything that can catch on fire.  Other than that, pretty much anything that provides a stable mounting for your forge should work out well.

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i was thinking about some fire brick, or would you recommend going another route with insulation?

my workbench is wood but i figured the bricks would raise it up a few inches and would create the clearance i need

 

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I'm sure by now you've picked up that for inside the forge the recommendation is kaowool or equivalent (rigidized) for insulation, preferrably with a castable/rammable refractory hard liner and that coated with ITC-100 or equivalent.  As a barrier between the bench and forge something like firebrick should be fine. Anything that will keep the high heat from the combustibles will do what you need.

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7 hours ago, omegabrock said:

viking -  looking at that, i think i would want something a little bigger like a paint can, even just starting out. i was thinking about the 8000 because it comes with a hose and it's still relatively cheap. 

I hear ya, I am currently working on a second forge out of an old fire extinguisher, a little bigger, a little stronger, with two open ends and two burner ports. I am still planning on using the same burner, until I make my own.

 

6 hours ago, omegabrock said:

my workbench is wood but i figured the bricks would raise it up a few inches and would create the clearance i need

Right now the coffee can is strapped to a piece of 2"x 3" rectangular tube using gear clamps, to keep the heat off the table. Then I place it on a patio brick for some extra height. The photo attached is a bit older, I currently run a remote line from the torch to a 20lb tank.

IMG_3528.JPG

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A little, say 3/4" - 1"  dead air and some concrete backer board is enough to shield a bench top from the dragon's breath. Provided the dragon isn't blowing directly on the board. You can back off those clamps, they're distorting the forge and the liner is already rumpled enough. The wrinkle is forming a pocket the torch appears to be aimed directly into, this is a BAD thing.

Frosty The Lucky.

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The top-o-the line Bernzomatic torches come and go more frequently than their lesseor models to, becuase they are relplaced by improved (and more costly) versions more frequently. Below is the model that replaced the " jth7" you are speaking of; like the old torch it uses a stainless steel goose neck, and like the older model it is ridiculously expensive.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/BERNZOMATIC-2880270-Hose-Torch-Kit-Propane-5-Ft-Hose/40891378

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That's actually the model I was looking at from lowes but the price was definitely off putting...but as it turns out, my wife has been delaying my project. Telling me to make my complete parts list and draw up the plans for everything before I even start collecting parts. 

 

Out of nowhere yesterday, she tells me to build a new workbench that will be portable around our garage. Turns out, she was putting me off from buying anything so she could surprise me with a diamondback forge. It's supposed to be in today. That's pretty exciting considering she has been telling me to be as cheap as possible. 

 

She doesnt know this, but I still plan on building one haha

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