ThomasPowers Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 If it's been sitting awhile the old oil may be sludgy and profit from a THOROUGH cleanout to prevent surprises in use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 43 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: If it's been sitting awhile the old oil may be sludgy and profit from a THOROUGH cleanout to prevent surprises in use. If it is a total loss system rather than a circulating one there should not be much sludge...but the oil may well be floating on top of water from condensation or rain as it has been outside. I agree though, a thorough clean out is required whatever the contaminant. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 Well, shop space cleared, ISO 32 hydraulic oil ordered (10l), hoist is about to arrive. And in bit, 4 o'clock in the morning I'm leaving for the Beche. My camera is half dead but hopefully can squeeze couple of picts out of it... I'll be back G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 She's home! Some updates: anvil weighs 900kg/1980lbs, machine weighs: 1900kg/4190lbs bad news on the bearing beds of the main camshaft: one's cracked, other has no upper part (picts later) She agreed on traveling around and flying a bit: Arriving home: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpencerDirks Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 What a beaut! hopefully it doesn't give you too much trouble getting it back in working order! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 yes pics of the bearing parts with some idea of size, you should be able to get such parts made without much trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Cheering for you. With some work it should be a nice piece of kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 Some updates with pictures: She's at her servicepoint Began to clean the goo and stuff off, and slowly loosen the nuts. And the ram is stabilized from beneath. Here is the crack of the rear bearing bed. You can see the meeting point of the upper and bottom half of the bed in the first pict. The size of the whole bed (is this the right word?): 220 mm long, 300 mm wide and it accomodates a 90 mm dia camshaft The front bearing bed with the missing upper part. The camshaft is 70 mm dia in this part: The joining of camshaft and the vertical shaft, bolts are missing I guess: The oil pump. I decided to begin here. Instead of getting it off and taking it apart I just put oil in it hoping it will go smoothly. But now I think I have to take it apart anyway. Something blocks the wheel when rotating. It turns for a while, first 1,5 turns now about 5-6 turns then it stucks. Now it's more shiny, but does not work yet Any comments or suggestions are welcome. Thank you all for contributing! Bests: Gergely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matei campan Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 till now it was easy, now comes the difficult part . I think that for that broken "ear" of the bearing you can makes some kind of "prosthetic" repair - I'd forge a "strap" from some thick flat steel to be anchored on the upper bolt and to go down over the broken ear to take it's function. welding it may be problematic and maybe won't be as tough. as for the crankshaft - if the shaft is rusted, maybe you have to take it out and mill the surface on a lathe. does the remaining half of the bearing could be taken out? Is there a bushing inside? I'm sure that the problem could be fixed by a good machinist. maybe you can adapt it to accommodate some kind of split bearing like those: https://www.google.ro/search?q=split+bearings&client=ubuntu&hs=IAh&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJ1rD-3fzPAhUGDCwKHbyOAwsQ_AUICCgB&biw=1301&bih=678#imgrc=bjAu_WFRDkMu3M%3A. I think more experienced members will advise you, I was just doing some kind of brainstorming here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 yes, Matei, it looks like difficult is the new fun! Thanks for the brainstrom. These really are split bearings, and maybe some sort of non-ball kinds, with babitt or the like. I have to examine that crack better. The bearing house has already moved forward from the "ear", so must see from what direction it has to be stabilized. Today I got the chain hoist. So in the future I try and lift out the camshaft. (It will be pretty serious work as far as I can see it now.) But first of all I want to proceed with the oil pump. I want it to work before any bigger part moves so they can get lubrication. Also cleaning off the rust from the ram is a duty in late. Looks like I got myself a nice hobby here - hitting steel by day and then playing with the Beche after hours. I'm not complaining though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 It would appear that the previous owner had commenced to take it apart... possibly to repair or replace that rear bearing block...but that may not have been the reason...you must take it part now and see whether there is anything else at fault. The first line of approach is to go back to the people you bought it from and see if it is possible to find the missing parts. It looked like it was in a scrap yard. They may have the main bearing cap and the bottom pallet on a pile somewhere....You may be able to do some detective work and see if you can get back to the original owners who may have the missing parts still...they may have kept the bottom pallet as a door stop.. They may also be able to tell you what was wrong with it and why they had started to strip it out. If no luck with them...then Bêché are the best bet for spare parts...even if they only have un-machined cast blanks it will save you having to make everything from scratch. They may well be able to let you have machine shop drawings and tolerance specifications for the parts. If you do have to make from scratch you will probably be better off machining from solid mild steel rather than going through the process of pattern making, casting and then machining for a one-off. The bearing shells are probably machined from Phosphor bronze castings. If you remove the crankshaft and the bottom main bearing shell you will be able to use it as a pattern...again it may possibly be better to machine from solid rather than bother with the casting process. Price it and see. If you are not able to replace the cracked bearing housing flange with one from Bêché I would be inclined to braze or silver solder it and then reinforce it with a steel strap. a Z shaped piece from the top cap bolt could possibly do it. I would not attempt to weld it for fear of distortion. If the original did not withstand the stresses, a welded on won't be any stronger, so reinforcing is necessary. With such a long crankshaft it is surprising that there should have been sufficient stress to crack the housing at that point. It makes me wonder whether the non-functioning oil pump may have contributed to the failure. How was the oil delivered to those crankshaft bearings? If you are trying to get the oil pump going before doing anything else...you must disconnect the pipes...who knows what was in the bottom of the reservoir that you are trying to pump into your bearings and cylinder? As Thomas said above...flush it first, and definitely disconnect it from the pipework before you turn it over to make sure you are only getting clean oil out of it when you do get it going. Don't fill up the pipe work with crud and make more work for yourself! Big job...but you will not know until you can get it all apart and see exactly what the total work will involve. Alan ps Is the bearing housing still on the end of the connecting rod? You show the bolts are missing but the photo is not clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 20 minutes ago, Alan Evans said: They may have the main bearing cap and the bottom pallet on a pile somewhere.... Thank you, Alan, for the suggestions. One quick question: What is a bottom pallet? I try to look for the bearing housing of the connecting rod - couldn't see it yet, cause it's hard to look at. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo7 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Mate there is likely to be a fair bit of gunck in the bottom, the missing bits may be in there. Give this area a good clean out as there is some nooks and crannys in the bottom under the bearing shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Gergely said: Snip...One quick question: What is a bottom pallet? snip... The pallets are the replaceable/wearing parts that actually come in contact with the hot metal workpiece. Bottom pallet = bottom tool=Anvil working face=bottom die... Smaller hammers most seem to refer to them as top or bottom forging dies. Your photographs show the anvil block with an intermediate "sow" block, but no pallet. Another source of parts has occurred to me if Bêché themselves no longer have parts. Some posters have said that the Bêché design hammer has been copied by American and Chinese companies...they may be exact enough copies for the parts to be usable especially if made under licence.... Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 16 hours ago, turbo7 said: Mate there is likely to be a fair bit of gunck in the bottom, the missing bits may be in there. Give this area a good clean out as there is some nooks and crannys in the bottom under the bearing shelf. Wonderful idea, Turbo! I went fishing: And found this, this must be the bottom half of the bearing on the connecting rod: Also took apart the oil pump. It seems that it moves just as long as the tilted ring turns around to its highest position (see it in the picture). It stucks then. The small "pistons" look like they move freely, so I really don't understand why it stops. But this is now a mechanism with so sensitive parts that I think I give it to my turner friend who likes to play these sorts of games. Maybe he can fix it. Any suggestions are welcome though 17 hours ago, Alan Evans said: How was the oil delivered to those crankshaft bearings? If you are trying to get the oil pump going before doing anything else...you must disconnect the pipes...who knows what was in the bottom of the reservoir that you are trying to pump into your bearings and cylinder? As Thomas said above...flush it first, and definitely disconnect it from the pipework before you turn it over to make sure you are only getting clean oil out of it when you do get it going. Don't fill up the pipe work with crud and make more work for yourself! ps Is the bearing housing still on the end of the connecting rod? You show the bolts are missing but the photo is not clear. I see nothing functioning as oil delivery part for crankshaft bearings. The oil pump takes oil only three places: tup pillar, compressor pillar and the vertical connecting rod bearing (but I'm not sure how. It just goes in that way.) There is a filter in the bottom of the pump. But you're right, there is some nasty gooish stuff in the bottom. And some rust crumbs too... I yet have to find out how to flush those small pipes on the machine body. I can't tell how grateful I am to you all for your kind help and remote control - thank you so much! Best wishes: Gergely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo7 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Hmm, might be worth a look in the hollow under the motor then to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 See if there is any trace of an oil cup or grease nipple on top of the cracked bearing cap. It may have been just a daily greasing or oil cup fill for those crankshaft bearings. On my 3cwt Alldays the oil is fed under pressure to the main bearings and thence through a series of connecting drilled holes in the crankshaft to the big end bearing and then via a copper pipe running up the connecting rod to the little end bearing and gudgeon pin in the Master piston. The connecting holes of the oil way through the crankshaft lobes have grubscrew plugs blanking off the drilling access points. The bottom of your oil reservoir has a similar blanking/drain plug. The Alldays is single acting unlike your double acting Bêché. Is there any evidence that the whole of the area below the crankshaft was an oil reservoir? A splash system may have been used...do get in touch with Bêché all of these suggestions are conjecture. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo7 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Soaker pads for the front and rear crankshaft bearings, oiler will oil Conrod bearing via a pivot, will need cleaning well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 Thanks, guys! I'm off with family at my parents' for the holiday weekend. Will be back in the shop wednesday. Bests to all! Gergely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.