September 18, 20169 yr Gee THANKS Vaughn! I watched the horn and bumper welding video and a bunch more Borax wagon videos show up. Now I'm stuck watching a whole slew of Engels Coach Shop videos! There goes MY day, curse you. Great link, thank you. Frosty The Lucky.
September 18, 20169 yr Wow, he has some mad skills and some incredible strength to move that all around!!!
September 19, 20169 yr 3 hours ago, JHCC said: I wonder what he's using for flux...? 20 Mule Team Borax. He mentions it as the borax they used to make the wagons to haul. Frosty The Lucky.
September 19, 20169 yr Author 12 hours ago, Frosty said: Gee THANKS Vaughn! I watched the horn and bumper welding video and a bunch more Borax wagon videos show up. Now I'm stuck watching a whole slew of Engels Coach Shop videos! There goes MY day, curse you. Great link, thank you. Frosty The Lucky. Glad I could help, Frosty. If it makes you feel better, you're not alone. I watched the horn and bumper video and couldn't stop myself from watching the rest. It's amazing to see all that heavy wood and iron come together to make the front end of a wagon. That's some very stout construction!
September 19, 20169 yr I've only gotten to catch a couple so far I had too much other stuff to do. Dang IT! Oh yeah, stout is the word, any idea how much power a 20 mule hitch has? Frosty The Lucky.
September 19, 20169 yr 8 hours ago, Frosty said: I've only gotten to catch a couple so far I had too much other stuff to do. Dang IT! Oh yeah, stout is the word, any idea how much power a 20 mule hitch has? Frosty The Lucky. Hey, everyone.. watch me make Frosty spin a little .... it has 20 HP attached to it...
September 19, 20169 yr Just now, teenylittlemetalguy said: Hey, everyone.. watch me make Frosty spin a little .... it has 20 HP attached to it... Hey, wait a sec -- that's 20 MP, and since 1 HP = 1/2 MH and 1/2 DP, we're looking at 10 HP + 10 DP.
September 19, 20169 yr 24 minutes ago, JHCC said: Hey, wait a sec -- that's 20 MP, and since 1 HP = 1/2 MH and 1/2 DP, we're looking at 10 HP + 10 DP. schucks I forgot my mule to horse conversion chart. good catch...
September 19, 20169 yr 43 minutes ago, teenylittlemetalguy said: schucks I forgot my mule to horse conversion chart. good catch... Just trying not to be asinine.
September 19, 20169 yr 3 minutes ago, JHCC said: Just trying not to be asinine. too late, I beat you to it.
September 19, 20169 yr BOL! (Braying Out Loud) As drag racers and street racers will tell you, HP sells cars, Torque wins races. Mules are a lot torqueier than horses. I said something without remembering what Dad read to me last time we were at Furnace Creek, Death Valley rock hounding so I exercised my Yahoo fu. on the terms 20 mule team wagons and hit a pretty informative site. https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/historyculture/twenty-mule-teams.htm Says each wagon hauled 40 tons and weighed around 7,800lbs dry one rear wheel weighed in at 1,000lbs. 18 mules and 2 horses per hitch. The horses were the lead animals in the team, horses are more cooperative than mules. Probably because mules are smarter. Oh, each hitch hauled TWO of these monster wagons 165 miles from Furnace creek to the rail head near Mojave in 10 days. Darned Vaughn now I'm stuck reading sites that make my jaw ache from hanging open in awe. Frosty The Lucky.
September 20, 20169 yr New bar question: How many mules in a "twenty mule" team? 18 mules 2 horses. Learn something new every day. Starbits
September 20, 20169 yr Just now, starbits said: New bar question: How many mules in a "twenty mule" team? 18 mules 2 horses. Learn something new every day. Starbits Eighteen mules + two horses = 11HP + 9DP.
September 22, 20169 yr Author Looks like he just uploaded another video. With all that huge iron, I don't doubt the wagons weighed close to 4 tons empty - even the brake arm is built stout!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOVc7Pbc8vo As for HP v. DP v. HP/DP, you can't forget to take into account slippage where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. All the power and torque in the world doesn't amount to a hill of beans if you can't get traction. Has anyone done a study on the various coefficients of grabbiness of different shoe styles and materials? Aluminum would obviously provide plenty of traction due to its deform around rocks and the like, but wear rates would be abysmal. Wrought iron would have been commonplace at the time, but did they prefer gnarly wrought like knife makers of today, or did the better teams opt for triple-refined wrought?
September 22, 20169 yr wow, look at that belt sander! I tip my hat to the people that did this way back then.... Littleblacksmith
September 22, 20169 yr 14 minutes ago, VaughnT said: Aluminum would obviously provide plenty of traction due to its deform around rocks and the like, but wear rates would be abysmal. Well, the mule teams ran from 1883-1889. Before Charles Martin Hall and Albert Hunt founded the Reduction Company of Pittsburgh (later ALCOA) in 1888, aluminum was as expensive as silver; aluminum seems unlikely.
September 22, 20169 yr As "horse power" was based on the "pit poney" used in British coal mining (Shetland poney) and a team ( pair) of compitition pulling horses can generate between 20-25 horse power at the swingle tree... despite being half ass, I would imagine that 350hp plus wouldn't be an unreasonable number. Honestly have any of you seen a Belgian mule, much less tried to shoe one of those beasts? as a side note, modern horse power (for sales advertising) is measured at the fly wheel, not the wheels. So 350hp at flywheel is a lot less than 350hp at the swingle tree
September 22, 20169 yr 2 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said: Honestly have any of you seen a Belgian mule, much less tried to shoe one of those beasts? Charles, I worked them when I lived in PA. Lovely animals, and the power is amazing. I'm a mule-man myself....
September 22, 20169 yr I apretiate mules, and unlike many ferriers I don't mind working with them, but the father's side gives them a totally different set of rules to live buy...
September 22, 20169 yr 5 hours ago, Charles R. Stevens said: .. despite being half ass, I would imagine that 350hp plus wouldn't be an unreasonable number. Honestly have any of you seen a Belgian mule, much less tried to shoe one of those beasts? Yessir, Love them. Heavy Horses too. 3 hours ago, aessinus said: Charles, I worked them when I lived in PA. Lovely animals, and the power is amazing. I'm a mule-man myself.... I'm still there. Gotta agree. They're a great animal. George
September 23, 20169 yr I'm with you, George. Hoping to bring in two Clydesdales for driving training and a Belgian this week. Love the mules, but they are different...
September 23, 20169 yr I like them all. We raised saddle horses when I was a kid but I get along with mules really well. They just don't cooperate unless you treat them with respect, if they like you they'll do things just to make you happy. Horses and donkeys are the same just not as stubborn if they don't like you. Stubborn as a mule is a true thing and a sure sign of a poor handler or danger close. Frosty The Lucky.
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