The Great Chain across the Hudson, 1778

[ianinsa]

6 hours ago, Alan Evans said:

In the Papillon novels by Henri Charierre about surviving the prison on Devil's Island in French Guiana he referred to those "bullets" as chargers

Alan

The book was a great read when I was in high school and the charger concept widely used, however it was the 'silver bullet' bit that I found interesting maybe Vlad the impaler(Count Dracula by all accounts) was the one that confused the issue of killing vampires with 'silver bullets '

[ThomasPowers]

As I recall the "silver bullet" thing was mentioned in the original Dracula book by Bram Stoker as well as Vampires being able to walk in daylight but not to transform themselves.

[ianinsa]

6 hours ago, JHCC said:

 

The complicated relationship between the West Point fortifications, Benedict Arnold, his second wife Peggy Shippen, and British officer John Andre was the ultimate inspiration for the Fleetwood Mac song "The Chain".  Who knew?

The opening song from my favorite music laser disc (shows my age I know) however I had thought The words were about Stevie Nix's 'complicated' relationship with another band member(the passion with winch it was performed leant credence at the time!)

[Alan Evans]

The silver bullet on page 42 of the Popolopen book was threatened to be cut out of the unfortunate and doomed, but not as yet undead, Lieutenant Taylor by Governor Clinton, because it carried a message from Sir Henry Clinton.

 

http://www.hudsonrivervalley.org/library/pdfs/articles_books_essays/popolopen.pdf

I must say I was confused for some time in these accounts of the events, by the plethora of Clintons involved. Took me some time before I sorted them out. Sir Henry Clinton, Fort Clinton, Governor Clinton and his brother James Clinton.

Alan

[elmoleaf]

I somewhat wondered how they managed to produce this chain. A bit of googling came up with this interesting website:

The Medieval Roots of Colonial Iron Manufacturing Technology

http://www.engr.psu.edu/mtah/articles/roots_colonial_iron_technology.htm

It compares Colonial iron production methods to that of medieval Europe.  It was interesting to note that the Colonies were expected to send their iron production to England: 

By 1751, Maryland and Virginia alone furnished England with 2,950 tons of iron, one-sixth of the mother country's own production. [20] [21] Finished goods such as pots, pans, hinges and tools were not to be made in the colonies, however, but bought and shipped from England. Beginning in 1660 and lasting until the Revolutionary War, a list of "enumerated articles" was published by the British government under the heading of the Navigation Acts. These articles, including cast pig iron, wrought bar iron, among others, were to be produced in the colonies, but shipped only to British ports. [22] Later, the Iron Act of 1750 reiterated those sentiments and prohibited all export of iron from the colonies to other countries. It did, however, remit all duties on exports to England, increasing the tonnage of iron exported from 3,000 in 1750 to 8,000 in 1770. [23] Understandably, complying with these laws would have eventually led to the undermining of all colonial iron manufacture efforts, which became a contributing factor to the ensuing revolution. Harold Livesay, summed it up in his statement, "The English passed laws to protect their market; the colonists developed iron works to ensure their iron supply." [24]

 

[ThomasPowers]

Well I read that paper end to end and I am afraid I have to say it has a lot of misinformation in it; things like tempering was repeated heating and quenching of iron and was not done save on objects that needed it due to the time it took.  Funny as late as the ACW high carbon steel could cost 6 times the cost of low carbon wrought iron and I have always ascribed the use of WI where ever it could be used to that not an extra couple of minutes heating a piece quenching it and reheating to draw temp---which doesn't work on low carbon stuff anyway.  Also that cast iron was changed to wrought iron by repeated hammering  and heating.

They extoll the virtues of charcoal iron made in America but at the same time that is what was used in Europe and England;  Abraham Darby's work still to come.

They mention the lake of forest resources in England but neglect to mention coppicing.  I sat in on a presentation at the Medieval Technology Conference at Penn State that gave a statistical breakdown of the wood used in a massive bank barn built in England as I recall 95% was under 40 years old when cut and the old pieces seem to have been reused from other structures.

They mention blacksmithing going from the castle to the town as iron production increased: pretty evident they don't know much about how arms and armour were made as they were at the towns where enough work for the highly specialized smiths could be found.

Worst they do not reference "Ironworks on the Saugus"  a central work for early iron in the Americas.

All in all it read like a person who depended only on books and was not able to winnow when they went astray.

[JHCC]

Any folks here been to Hopewell Furnace in PA? Very cool restored 18th/19th c. iron foundry. 

https://www.nps.gov/hofu/index.htm

[ThomasPowers]

Yes and Allaire in NJ. Catoctin Furnace in Maryland and a lovely tour of the Hanging Rock region of Ohio's extant iron furnaces---one still had the charging ramp arched over to the furnace. (Tour given as part of the Iron Masters Conference at OU in Athens, OH,  I attended as some friend were presenting on 10 years of experiments with short stack bloomeries.)  Also the remains of Abraham Darby's furnace at Coalbrookdale, UK. (they were siting in the steam shingling hammers at the wrought iron works being re-assembled there at that time)

(it's not all book larning!)

[ianinsa]

12 hours ago, Alan Evans said:

 

I must say I was confused for some time in these accounts of the events, by the plethora of Clintons involved. 

Alan

Didn't someone say something about history repeating itself?

[Alan Evans]

3 hours ago, ianinsa said:

Didn't someone say something about history repeating itself?

Then as now...I wondered if there was any connection?

Alan

10 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

snip...Also the remains of Abraham Darby's furnace at Coalbrookdale, UK. (they were siting in the steam shingling hammers at the wrought iron works being re-assembled there at that time)

(it's not all book larning!)

When were you there Thomas? At one of the CC or BABA events, or independent visitor?

Alan

[ThomasPowers]

Independent visitor back in the late 70's or early 80's, (post high school, pre marriage as I recall)  Going on a Family trip to England and my Parents asked what I wanted to see in England---Coalbrookdale was top of my list!  My most recent international trip that didn't involve walking across the border was to Wales but that was dedicated to my wife's interests. (save for sneaking away from the Spider Silk Cope display and seeing James Watt's workshop!)

[Alan Evans]

The second international Crafts Council Hereford conference did a visit there around that time...I remember looking down into the anvil pit under the double arch hammer. We had a BABA AGM there a few years later just after they had commissioned the hammer and the rolling mill...they did a run through for us and I took a load of photos of the process. If I can find them I will try and scan and post them.

Come to think of it I wrote an article for the British Blacksmith, will try and dig that out too.

Alan

[gote]

Silver bullets were used to kill "hard" targets in European folklore. A hard target would be an enchanted stag, a vampire, a soldier or officer who never was wounded in battle or whatever. The idea was that an unusual target would need an unusual - preferably expensive - bullet. It has been rumored that Karl XII was shot 1718 using a round uniform button.