Alwayslearning Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 So.. I salvaged some 2" thick steel cable from the local lake. Very rusty, but hardenable (quenched and was brittle and crumbly after).. Tried electrolytic rust removal, then vinegar bath, got a lot of rust off, but not all. Have it sprayed with oil to keep flash rust from happening before I get to it with naval jelly and a wire wheel. Question is this: would case hardening this chunk of cable (-before- I forge it into a billet), cause a higher contrast in the colors seen after an etch, or am I just opening another can of worms and making it harder to forge? Another wrinkle, I'd like to add a pure nickel guitar string wrapped counter to the direction of the cable twist, more pain than it is worth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 are you sure you hardened it and did not just burn it? if you forge it after hardening it you will undo the hardening yes there are worms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwayslearning Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 To clarify: took a sample of the cable, heated above Curie temperature, and quenched in water. Oh, and no "sparklers" - took individual strands of wire rope (approximately 2mm in diameter), heated with propane torch until just a few degrees above Curie temperature, and quenched in water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEAP of JEEP Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I'm no expert, so take my advice for what its worth, but I've found with cable, that you get the best results of hardening by actually forge welding a hunk together, and then heat treating that like you would a finished blade. The individual strands are so thin, they burn before you have any hope of saving them. With every stand of cable I can get from the scrap yard, I sacrifice the first few inches to a test billet. I used to try the individual strands, but got "burned" (figuratively) when I thought they hardened up, but when I did a blade, it stayed nice and soft. My guess is I burned the strand, which was so thin, it reacted much like you described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Case hardening: so you were going to unwind the cable and case each individual strand and then wind it back up? Otherwise you won't get even penetration into the center of the cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwayslearning Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 Wasn't going to use the case hardening process to harden the steel per se, but just to make the dark colors darker in the resulting billet. So the hardening doesn't need to be even, nor will I be unwinding it to do so. Just to up the contrast between the shades of steel -my thought was case hardening before forging might make the individual strand boundaries stand out more -that is, if I'm able to keep it below burning temperature! Will do some more quench tests to be sure it is high enough carbon. A cool looking knife is nice, but a cool looking knife that can hold a keen edge is more important to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Les see the pattern in cable is postulated to be due to the decarburization of the surface of the wires so by decreasing the contrast by recarburizing them you expect to increase the contrast how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Alwayslearning don't forget to add your location to your profile! we wont remembet were you are in the world next time you post, and It gets kind of old when people keep asking where you are. Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I once tried mixing case hardening compound in with my borax for welding up my cable. Wouldn't you know it, that's about the only stuff borax won't dissolve. But I did come up with taking some charcoal and grinding into a fine powder then mixing it with my borax. It works. Now as to any benefit, I haven't had enough testing to see. But the patterning did seem a little more defined. My problem was I did it during the changing of the seasons. The temp of the ferric chloride really has a lot to do with how the cable etches out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 I can see the logic behind case hardening cable or other billet stock for contrast. There are compounds to case harden other than carbon, it's been too many years to remember what they were but they were for wear resistance. Another thought for fun with pattern welding I've been entertaining is adding various sprinkles of saw cuttings so I've been segregating cuttings and keeping them in closed labeled jars. Mild steel, various medium carbon steels from pry bars, etc. cuttings from RR rail and a few indeterminate others. I was talking about doing this on an email list and a member sent me several bottles of various torch spray metallizing powders and some planer blades. I thought opening a cable enough to dust it with Stellite might make a nice pattern. I really ought to give it a try one of these days eh? Frosty The Lucky, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 rather than just talk about it, try it and let us see the results, its alot like the first guy to eat an olive or an oyster. Talk about it all you want, but until ya take the first bite you will never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Visit the dark side? Just one time, right? I won't get hooked, honest nobody gets hooked the first time they try it. Nice try Steve. Frosty The Lucky, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwayslearning Posted September 5, 2016 Author Share Posted September 5, 2016 Guess I'll have to buy some case hardening compound and give it a go when I get a chance! Here is my first attempt at forge welding.. No case hardening has been done, nor much of an etch, just a half hour in ferric chloride. I see (apart from the obvious defects) a bit of pattern there! http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/39525-pattern-welded-cable-blade-001/ Oh Frosty, I want to see the result if you ever heat up your powders in a can and beat it into something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aessinus Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Where you at, Hoss? I'll have to scrounge around, but I think I have a can of kasenit. Could send you a bottle if you want to give a go with the cable. I'd offer Frosty some, but Steve scared him off . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwayslearning Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 Aessinus, thanks for the offer! if you decide you want to part with it, I live in Vermont, in a town called Colchester. If you pm me I'll give you the full address. If kasenit works for "color", might push me to go absolutely silly and make a nitrogen chamber for nitriding! Must remind myself..baby steps, baby steps.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aessinus Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 PM sent. Ain't experimenting great fun? Why baby steps? btw, stick that town, state in your user profile so us old coots don't have an excuse to not know which coast (or which side of which pond) folks are located. Material, supplies & tools can be location dependent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwayslearning Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 Will do! "Baby steps" so I actually have some confidence-building success (+ needed skill building), and don't go on a high flying tangent with attending catastrophic failure. Though, as you can probably tell, this doesn't always stop me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwayslearning Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 Still working on this experiment.. got some swaged cable from online, and started forge welding a piece to "figure it out". After I get that together, I'll try the kasenit to see what it does to contrast and colors.. Had to put it on the back burner though, as with my limited free time I had been working on a birthday gift for the wife. Pre '82 Canadian nickels, and some American dimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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