Burners 101

[Mikey98118]

There are at least two different manufactureres of these angle grinders; this is the REISBA model; it is supposed to be variable speed, although mine dies when I try to slow its speed. The RISBA grinder is rated at 250 to 360 watt grinder that is rated to run between 3000 to 14000 RPM. It is meant to plug into 220V outlets, although it will run at half speed from 110V outlets; the run on both 50 and 60 hz.

The other model is only rated at 135 watts, so be careful to avoid it.

[Mikey98118]

Frosty,

So, do you have any thoughts about this tool? I think that if nothing else, its design is a good direction.

On the down side, I don't think that I really understand their version of 220V motors and controls.

[Frosty]

I think it would be nice to have affordable power tools that will run on whatever power is available, 240vac or 120vac, etc. But I don't know enough about how it would be done to have a useful opinion or want to experiment. Maybe I've just fallen for enough "too good to be true" things in my life I like to wait till it's a proven . . . thing. I just don't have the same drive to try these things as you. It's not like tinkering something together out of stuff in the junk drawer and shelf 3&5 of the local plumbing supply.

Heck, my shop isn't even wired, let alone for 240vac, the tree shut me down on a lot of things. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

Tools only matter to me in what they can or can't help the artist to accomplish. By artist I include everyone from art student to would-be hobbyist, to craftsman. For the only differences between them are the decisions they make; beginning with "will I become this or that...or will I not even try."

I understand about the tree; a heart attack and two strokes made a lot of changes in my own plans; worse luck, while I was coming back from all of that, I became a rickety old man. It's enough to make you grin at yourself

[Another FrankenBurner]

I don’t know about the bad luck. As my granddad always said “Getting old sucks but the alternative is worse.” 

[Frosty]

I didn't mean to bring the accident up again but I find myself frustrated at not being very articulate since and it sometimes comes out as a long whine. 

Sorry about that everybody.

I don't think there is an alternative, King Tut and Lucy get older every day. 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

 

[Scott NC]

"Age is an issue of mind over matter. If you don’t mind, it doesn’t matter."  Twain.  I'm sorry but I couldn't help myself posting that.  I ache at fifty eight.  ..  Not a promising thing...

[Scott NC]

  Among other things.  I didn't mean to sound insensative....  

[Mikey98118]

Relax, Scott. We are all still smiling

[Scott NC]

Okay.  

[Frosty]

BOY, run an errand and something happens! 

Quoting Twain fits right in with this crowd, some of the kids might not understand but that's okay. 

Can't talk about time realistically and be "sensitive." Nothing is as insensitive to our feelings or heck anything as the passage of time. 

Here's to everybody passing a whole bunch more time.

Not that it's a contest but I was aching in the morning when I was in my late 20s and it hasn't gotten any better! And NO, staying in bed longer didn't help either.

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

The older I get, the better I was.

[Another FrankenBurner]

The older I get, the dumber I was.

[Frosty]

The more I learn the less I know. 

Remember boys, "Don't pet the cheese, that isn't fur."

Frosty The Lucky.

[Scott NC]

On 4/3/2024 at 5:55 PM, Frosty said:

staying in bed

  I get out of bed on the way to the couch.  

[Frosty]

I have a TV in the bedroom and Deb has a coffee pot and keeps her muffins stocked on her side. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[dgr]

  Mike, if you get bored, look at an e-cowlboy forge on the jungle.  Not because it's anything spectacular but look at the burner.  More specifically, the gas jet mount.  The pictures aren't great but it looks like they're using a mig tip threaded into a copper pipe that is then threaded into an off the shelf plumbing fitting for the flare connection. 

 

What caught my eye is the copper pipe appears to be the same OD as the mig tip.  I thought maybe they swaged or soldered it but one of the reviews shows a bunch of swarf that was pulled out of it and the reviewer said he unthreaded both ends to get the swarf out..  My curiosity said, how'd they get a 1/4 diameter mig tip threaded into a 1/4 OD copper pipe?

Has anyone looked at the cast iron wasp waisted burners on AliExpress?  They're pictures give some ideas.  One of them showed compression ferrules on a 6mm gas tube.  A 1/4 comoression x NPT might be a slick way to mount an adjustable gas tube.

 

Last thing for Mike's new book.  I've seen it mentioned in your writing that mufflers are zinc coated.  I installed a few mufflers in my younger days and never saw the telltale yellow soot of zinc when welding them.  I believe non-stainless modern exhaust components are aluminized and not zinc coated steel.

 

 

 

Cheers

[Mikey98118]

dgr,

 I had a look, but did not find any e-cowlboy forge photos of their gas pipe and MIG tip. So, all I have to go on is my own previous experience; that tells me that copper pipe is quite unlikely to be used as a gas tube. A brass gas tube is far more likely. Old brass parts sometimes look like copper in photos. As to how they get a MIG tip with 1/4-27 thread to screw into a 1/4" outside diameter tube or pipe, the gas tube is probably 5/16" outside diameter by 3/16" inside diameter. Although, MK brand MIG tips have smaller diameter thread, which would probably just barely work in a 1/4" gas tube; hey are a superior tip, but I quite using them, because they are just too hard for people to find.

By the way, their photos show a lemon yellow incandescent interior, which is consistent with 2000 to 2100 F heat range. 2700 F interiors are white hot.

But the worst thing I see about these forges are the exhaust openings and doors. They look nearly guaranteed to warp from the heat of exhaust gasses.

I could go on picking out things I don't like about this forge...but, enough said.

"Last thing for Mike's new book.  I've seen it mentioned in your writing that mufflers are zinc coated.  I installed a few mufflers in my younger days and never saw the telltale yellow soot of zinc when welding them.  I believe non-stainless modern exhaust components are aluminized and not zinc coated steel."

Ups! Suppose I'm showing my age Thanks for the update.

 

[dgr]

I do believe I confused the burners I was looking at on AliExpress with the one I pointed you towards.  I blame old age.  You're right.  It isn't copper but it appears to be the same diameter as a mig tip in the photo attached

 

The forge I was looking at with the relevant picture is no longer showing in a search on Amazon.  I apologize for the wild goose chase.  I wasn't really focused on the forge but the gas tube did catch my eye.  The forge and burner is, how did you put it, a garage heater and a good base of parts.  If their dimensions are accurate, it could fit another layer of inswool and a refractory coating and end up with about 300 cubic inches.  Throw in a decent burner and it might heat some metal.

[Frosty]

You might want to refigure the volume. As shown I see 283 cu/in volume and if you ad another inch of ceramic wool barely 125 cu/in. 

The measurements shown are the outside dimensions you have to calculate volume with the inside dimensions. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Another FrankenBurner]

I use ¼ inch OD stainless brake line with my orifices. Used to be mig tips, now I use 3D printer nozzles. I turn the threads off and silver braze them in.

Also, as usual, my math mostly agrees with Frosty’s.

[Another FrankenBurner]

Just rethought about that math, because math is awesome. You also have to subtract the volume of the split brick (another 50 in³).  I get approximately 80 in³ if another layer is added, and the brick is included. The fit of the brick would be interesting too. Might have to cut it down or chamfer the edges.

Would be even less volume if refractory is applied.

[Frosty]

I forgot about the split brick but that's generally my advice about putting a brick in the forge. Forget about it.

Like Mike I see so little right about this forge I don't have to "Find" fault. Even the hose is pretty useless being crimped to whatever the "regulator is." One of the guys up here bought one and we discovered the regulator was nothing but a flashy needle valve and did nothing for psi. 

My best advice is, "Do NOT waste money on it!" It is so badly designed and built I'd be hard pressed to think of anything to use it for. Maybe hardening short blades one at a time. I'd rather build a charcoal fire in the old BBQ.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

I would lose the brick, and add a 1/4" thick finish flame surface of Kast-O-lite 30, or Plistix 900, instead.

This is a much better forge than the one I looked at; not because of its size, which is better because you will want to keep it, even after you build the "forge of your dreams." The best improvement over the other one, is that there is no angle around its exhaust openings to heat up, and be warped out of shape

As to providing parts for other forges...if you simply scribe lines between the forward and aft holes on its burner, I think you will decide to keep your "garage heater" just as is

20 minutes ago, Frosty said:

My best advice is, "Do NOT waste money on it!" It is so badly designed and built I'd be hard pressed to think of anything to use it for. Maybe hardening short blades one at a time. I'd rather build a charcoal fire in the old BBQ.

Frosty The Lucky.

People might use the e-cowlboy forge for a fancy door stop? Let's not forget to be helpful, at all times

[Mikey98118]

My first burner designs used a series of holes in a line. The famous Hybrid burners, changed those series of hole to slots, improving burner performance. I came back with rectangular air openings, with beveled edges for and aft, improving them still further. However, simply cutting out the material between the back and forward hole in these burners, will turn them into air slots, which should improve burner performance more than enough for small burners.

So, what has size got to do with anything? For some reason that I do not understand, smaller burner sizes tend to run hotter than larger burners; I have had to partially de-tune my smallest burners (1/4" size and under), in order to maintain long turn down ranges.

This is the main reason that I am playing with linear burner designs again; they are more than hot enough to serve as miniature burners, and a whole lot easier for people to construct than Mikey burners.

Don't worry, though; I've already designed souped-up linear burner versions, which are much harder to build, for the determined hobbyist. Never let it be said, that I let my fellow mad scientist types down