blackwolf365 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 hello all, im new to this site, so please bare withany bonehead questioinsd i might ask. that being said, what would be an advisable metal to cast a crucible out of when the metals ill be casting/melting will be copper, aluminum, and lead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Since you asked a very commonly asked and answered question, and also posted this in the gallery not the forums casting section I will assume you are very green, have not read anything yet, and do not want to kill yourself? If that is true I suggest you read a lot before even getting started to light a fire. Welcome to the forum I will relocate this post for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Steve I don't know that casting your own metal crucible is covered as it's generally not a good way to go... However Platinum is definitely the best! Works to high heats and is very inert. (and can be bought premade---just google platinum crucibles!) Of course casting a metal crucible will be MUCH more expensive than buying a non-metallic one that would work far better in most cases; but since that cost doesn't play a part in the question I knew that you could handle the cost of platinum on top of the cost of casting your own. Note that you will want to have separate crucibles for each metal/alloy to prevent cross contamination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 As usual our local curmudgeons are trying to gently steer you along in a safer and more practical direction. Casting metal is very dangerous. Get some hands on assistance and training from someone who has actually done it successfully for a couple of years (and still has all their parts intact). Training by watching YouTube does not qualify. As far as crucibles go, how are you going to cast a crucible if you don't already have a crucible to heat the metal up in? Kind of horse before the cart there. Not to mention, that as Thomas said, non-metallic crucibles are a better choice. Crucibles are a consumable in a foundry in any case, so a cheaper, time tested alternative is a better choice. Suggest you Google search graphite crucibles for info on suppliers and crucible types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackwolf365 Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 I am full well aware of the danger involved and I was merely asking a question whos answer I plann to put to use at a later time. I know that working with molten metal DEMANDS a great deal of patience, focus, and respect and that the second you get careless is the second you'd bad day sledgehammers you in the ribs, so to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Sorry; it's just the question set off all the warning signs for someone getting in over their head. Lead is often cast out of a cast iron ladle---but I don't know anybody who spends a ton of money casting their own when such are available cheap... Al; well I'd suggest you read through the Dave Gingery series on casting Al and go with what he suggests. Copper is getting into the higher temp metals and is a pain to cast due to it's uptake of oxygen. BTW have you spent time on the backyard metal casting forums? A site dedicated to casting rather than smithing? Me I do small casts usually for knife fittings and use my coal forge as the heat source and stainless steel creamers as disposable crucibles. Usually get at least 1 pour for them before they scale to danger zone. Fire control is paramount to keep it reducing. I like to use petrobond for the molds. I took an out of hours brass casting class from a University arts school to learn the safety aspects and basics. I strongly recommend folks learning from other folks who know as it's easy to not know what you are missing from books and the web... The way we usually get these questions is "Hi I want to save money by spending 100 times more to do something myself that is easily found and purchased with a much better safety factor" Or even "Please help me damage/maim/disfigure myself and risk high legal bills cause I have to blame someone else when I screw up" Hence our caution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackwolf365 Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Its all good. There's gotta shmuks everywhere just willynilly jumping iinto this without the slightest clue of what is really about. I met a smithy once. He said that bit gets in your blood. That it becomes part of you. I believe him too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 If your casting volumes are pretty small (a pound or two at a shot) there are now some fairly inexpensive electric smelters available from places like Amazon. The units are generally chinese made (what isn't these days?) but do give reasonable service without the fuss. You would simply buy spare crucibles which fit the specific machine for each metal you want to melt. The lead you mentioned is generally considered to be a bad idea these days for obvious health reasons. Think twice on that one. No use reinventing the wheel with a "home brew" set-up if you really don't need to. Counting your labor it will cost you more to roll your own and will take much longer to be pouring liquid. If your shots are larger, there are commercial crucibles available. Again, no benefit to reinventing the wheel so it's better to save your cigarette money until you can buy something standard. For some real fun, look up "fixturing metal". Those are the specialty metals which melt at very low temperatures..often hot water is enough...which can be cast and re-cast. Fun to play with when you are just experimenting. Your molds can even be plastic (the right plastic, of course) because the temps are so low. Vacuum formed candy molds often work for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 BTW round these parts the Smithy is a building---(remember Longfellow? "Under a spreading chestnut tree the village smithy stands, The SMITH, a mighty man is he...") can't say how the jargon goes other places... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackwolf365 Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 To me, the building is the forge and the smithy is the one 'pounding on the steel'. Butnit don't really matter, which term we use because bits all part of the same entity. And the whole is more than the sum of the parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 If something so elementary as using the correct terms so others know what you're saying and you understand the answers "don't really matter" to you then playing with molten metal is NOT for you. Please take a couple classes so you have a clue, you're much to young to earn a Darwin award in such a horrific manner. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackwolf365 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 The 'correct term' is often relative to the region it is being used in. There are several terms that can be considered correct. And if its correct terms you want to use, then the word playing has absolutely no business what so ever anywhere near working with molten metal. Playing with molten metal is how people get hurt. To ThomasPowers: no sir, I don't. I've not got around to reading Longfellow yet. Maybe I should... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 words are all we have to communicate with in a forum situation. Games and word play in a forge can kill. Also as you yourself stated something about paying attention, but you started this thread in the gallery section of this forum's feedback and support section, where a fast glance would have shown you its for reporting issues with the software. If you pay that little attention in the shop you are dead. either way your comments are big flags, and this is not our first rodeo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackwolf365 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 I think I had better clarify things a bit. I have not yet started anything at this time. It is far to early into bthe plannig stage of my project to do anything but ask questions and do research. the clkiosest thing to this kinda of work i have done thus faris melting wax to make candles. im nowhere near any kind of actual fabrication point yet. soi rest asurde bthat i have not yet tried anything of this nature yet. appologies if iu have givenb any impressions to the otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Longfellow's "The Village Blacksmith" is one of the "classic" mentions of blacksmithing in American literature, Melville's "Moby Dick" has another when he describes the forging of the harpoon with great detail on the materials used and the properties they were believed to have. Of course the stories of the smith Reginn are the well known northern European works as are tales of Wayland the smith who even gets mentioned in Beowulf! Child Ballad #44 has even been set to contemporary music with a "Coal Black Smith" being one of the two protagonists. One of the two most common jokes about blacksmithing: "When I nod my head hit it!" is about the problem of miscommunication in a blacksmith's shop. (The other joke being "doesn't take me long to look at a horse shoe".) Jargon is a method of precisely specifying things specific to a craft or area of knowledge; it does have a local bias at times which can get down to a single person---or such a person and the students they had and the students their students had...usw. Learning the "language" is a part of learning a craft. (My wife has been teaching spinning for over 40 years now and her first class is just over terminology and students are expected to take notes!) As we don't know where you are at we can't make allowances for jargon shift, yearling black wolf... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Something to consider is the forum you chose to participate in. Iforge is represented by some 40,000 people in about 120+ countries around the world. If everyone here insists on using terminology from home the quality and value of communications goes in the dumper. One person could be looking for a kowalski and end up in the lee instead or just get funny looks when he gets upset by someone jumping up on his project. Does any of that make sense? Could be because two terms are Polish and Korean while the other two are regional or dialectic. One of the truly wonderful benefits of Iforge is how folks from around the world are developing a universal language and terminology so we can trade knowledge, techniques, tricks and help solve problems. We're all learning from each other, the smart ones listen and don't make excuses nor . . . Nevermind. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 "Smithy" is an adjective as in when your wife tells you "You're starting to smell a bit smithy" :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Husbands and Wives have a private language all their own; especially if they have kids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackwolf365 Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 Language, in general terms, is something that I don't quite think I'll ever fully understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 well if you eschew obfuscation and oxymoronic redundancies you can palaver in the patois with the rest of us black booger crowd! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Blackwolf, a graphite or fused silica crucible is relatively cheap online, and the way to go. Homemade crucibles are delicate, risky, and if you go with most metals, melty, and can cause nasty inclusions in your casting, amongst other issues. Other reccomendations - read up. The gingery books and the online sites like backyardmetalcasting.com, etc. Good PPE is a must. Stay away from zinc containing metals until experienced. But most importantly, seek experienced help. And not "that guy from youtube that put molten aluminum in an ant bed/watermelon/swimming pool." Try the local blacksmithing group, colleges, or sculpting groups. You'll save yourself a lot of grief, and quite possibly a lot of skin. And to be fair, Lee is about every third word/name in Korean, Frosty. And Kim is most of the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackwolf365 Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 I don't plan on melting iron/steel for some time to come. The hottest melt temp I'll be dealing with initially is aluminum. And the only casting I'll be doing is simple plates type shapes. As for losing skin: not gonna say it won't happen. That's a biton the arrogant side I think. In stead I will account as much for Murphy's Law as I can and implement safety measures that many here might consider overkill. I don't plan on putting any part of my skin close enough to be harmed by the molten metal. I can't say I won't mess up, I'm human after all, but I can say I won't be one of those beginner level idiot cowboys that think watching a few YouTube videos makes them experts. Expertise is something earned by training, work, devotion to this craft, and experience. I don't yet have the time put into it to be an expert and I'll be the first to admit it about myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Close enough to be seriously injured by molten al is within about 30' of the melt in a well designed foundry area. 212f. water expands 1,600x when it's phase changes to 212f steam. The greater the temperature of the steam the larger the expansion and al melts around 1,100f. One drop of water is enough to splash 15lbs of molten al better than 30'. I had some run down my back and I was almost that far from the badness. Fortunately I was really sweating and my shirt was untucked so it road a barrier of steam down my spine and didn't go down my pants. Mr. Harding 86ed the kid in class who knocked the bottom out of the mold for the fun of it. Here's another little tidbit to keep in mind. A steam explosion driven by 10 lbs. of molten iron is about the same as detonating 1 case of 40% dynamite. That's a crucible a little larger than a good size coffee mug. If you're pouring you will NOT get away. No synthetic clothing in a hot shop! Take a class and learn casting the right way and don't expect me to encourage your experimenting. I don't dislike you so I won't try talking you into a Darwin award. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Now we all know precisely how lucky Frosty really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackwolf365 Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 Nope, 'he' is still around. I just have much to accomplish right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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