If you were running a blacksmith school...

[KevinD]

What would be your course structure and in what order would you teach it?

Please - No talk of certification. :D

[yesteryearforge]

This is a very timely question
it will be interesting to hear the comments

Mike Tanner

[Glenn]

The IForgeIron Lessons in Metalworking > Blacksmithing has the first 10 or so lessons posted. The course outline has another 25 or more lessons that we will post as time allows.

Taking a blacksmithing course via internet is not the same as taking a course in person, and I would be interested in your comments as to what should be taught. That lesson would be considered for the Lessons program.

[skunkriv]

Shop safety-many who come to this craft have little or no knowledge of the general shop practices that are second nature to most of us.

Tools

Fire building and fire control/maintenance. I would teach with coal. Have some discussion and probably fire up a gasser to show them too.

Tapering. Forge a square point on the end of a bar then round it up.

Cutting on the hardy.

Taper, cut, taper, cut etc. etc. :D

[Mende]

Yes what skunkriv said ..and after that . .forge welding, bending, twisting and maybe some polishing and sharpening classes for bladesmiths

[fat pete]

SkunkRiver is pretty much what I am doing to learn...I also read alot and come here... i will try anything

[Rich Hale]

For several years I taught the first two weeks of an eight week horseshoeing school. During those two week the student got the foundation for the metal work they would continue throughout the school. Day one was a shop tour and safety. They were assigned work stations, each with a bench, coal forge small bench vise and an anvil. The anvils were on stands of varied heights and students were moved around until the anvils fit the best. Time was spent until each person could light and maintain a coal fire. The first item made was a fire rake. about 30" long when complete, a loop for the handle, a pointed end bent 90 degrees for the fire end. Then on to a center punch. Made from S-7 a tough steel to forge. Durien this day a lot of time is spent on body mechanics, Students are given suggestions to improve posture., grip, etc to insure safe and healthy body movements. During the day as fatigue starts to appear breaks are given during demonstrations. Demos are a preview of what will be next for the students. For instance at the end of the first day a horse shoe is forged and passed around. Students are introduced to what a shoe is and the names of the parts. All the tools they will make during the week are used and explained. They make the punches that are used to make the nail holes and use the tools they made the first day. PUnches for the nail holes are made from S-7 and the forepunch and bottom punches have mild steel handles welded on. The first week follows that outline. Safety, fire building and maintenence, body mechanics. Demonstrations as previews, and individual help as needed. Evenings are optional, if students want they can stay and recieve extra help every evening. By friday of the first week students should have a tools set and be making shoes. The next week is dedicated to makeing shoes and fitting them to patterns. Work is judged according to What we feel they should be making depending on where they are in the two weeks. by the end of the second week all shoes should be right and students should know the difference between front and hind patterns and right and left shoes and should be able to make a forge welded bar shoe to fit a pattern. This two week period prepares the students for the third week when they start on horses. About once a week they are back in the shop for more shoe building and fitting. There is a lot more to the curriculum but the first two weeks can alsmot be applied to any blacksmithing program. To build a forge welded bar shoe requires measuring for stock needed, shaping, scarfing for weld, forge welding, preparing the shoe for holes, starting and finisheng the holes, final shaping and fitting to a pattern, testing each nail hole for nail fit, checking nail hole placement and finishing all the edges, first with a hammer then with a file. With this short plan a student is equipped to do a lot of the skills any smith should learn. One big thing is learning to effectively use a hammer and anvil. I know for sure that is a shortcoming of a lot of smiths. This is as said before not do at home class and I feel nothing at all can replace individual attention by an instructor that knows his craft. For those that work and learn at home, invest your time in as many videos as you can but for sure put some money aside for clinics, and even more money for clinics that are hands-on.

[skunkriv]

Excellent Rich

Like he says get out and go to classes, demonstrations or hammer-ins. You can learn so much in one day (or one minute) with a good instructor or a friendly mentor.

Like many I started with a book in one hand and a hammer in the other. Hard to get much done that way!

[KevinD]

Thanks Rich. Thats exactly the type of input I was looking for.

I know that there are more real blacksmiths (like Rich) on this board. What would be your curriculum if you were to start your own school?

I really would like more input so I can get the best bang for my buck when I eventually go to a class.

What should I look for in a class for a beginner?

Like many I started with a book in one hand and a hammer in the other. Hard to get much done that way!

This is where I'm at. I need some learnin'.

I'm looking at the John C Campbell schedule and trying to decide which class to sign up for. First I need to secure the money. Then I need to call to make sure there is still room in which ever class I decide to take.

Blacksmithing Basics - Feb 10 - 15 or

Beginning Blacksmithing Feb 15 - 17 (weekend) or

Blacksmithing - Starting With Fire - Feb 17 - 23

If none of those are open I'll keep trying till I find a class that has an opening.

Also - Mark Aspery is doing a class in my local area this spring. I'm not sure if there are still spots available but I'm considering that class too.

[hdwarner]

i just got back from a class at pieh tool for a three day weekend with Gordon Williams
i have went to classes before at touchstone, peters valley and a local guild
i think for me anyway if you want to learn how to get things accomplished i learned more at pieh tool than all the others combined .

i am writing a testimonial about my experiences will post hopefully within next week
hopefully the content of what i write will answer any questions you may have if not
feel free to ask
never been to john cambell, plan on it though , heard all good things .

[Sam Salvati]

Kevin, if you can SPARE NO EXPENSE WHATSOEVER to get in the class with Mark Aspery, you will not be dissapointed.

[Rich Hale]

Kevin there are for sure some questions you need answers for, is there a place to stay on campus and what about meals? What do you need to bring as far as tools and personal stuff? What will be provided? What about the supplies, like fuel for fires, and the meetals you will use are they included? Is there group instruction only or is there individual attention. Is that facilityh licensed by whatever the state calls for to be a school? what about accidents and injuries? do they cover or do you? What medical facilities are near by and what are they? Is there after hours help if you feel you are getting behind and is it included in the class?
Will they give you a list of folks that have attended with the same instructor that you will work with. There are more but that may give you an idea.

[rthibeau]

say what?|::
))))

[larrynjr]

Not having done smithing long enough to even consider teaching it, all I can go on is curriculum that Jerry Culberson teaches in his beginner courses at Hand Forged Iron Wrought Iron Dcor Ornamental Hand Forged Iron Blacksmithing Candle Holder
First day is basic knowledge of anvil(s), hammers, forge, etc. then a demo on how to make a set of tongs (tapering, drawing). Then we make a punch and chisel then use those to make our own set of tongs. That's day one.
Day 2, is a demo on making a firepoker, (tenons, twisting) then you make one.
final day is, you go into his retail shop look for idea of things you'd like to try to make. Demo's on making all that cool stuff, then you make your choice(s).
It was great to be able to make something useful and take it home afterward. I'm still using the tongs I made at the first course.
The format made a lot of sense to me, especially the second time around! I had almost a 2 year break from my first class, smithing on my own and taking the course a second time this past fall. Jerry is incredibly knowledgeable and is able to pass that knowledge on to his students. He has been smithing for over 60 years.

[stretch]

i agree with the farrier teacher. A lot of people don't like to start small. The beginner classes i have taught we start out learning anvil comfort and hammering properly is shown. Hammering properly is very important and the students are continually reminded throughout the classes, because it is very important and we all have to be reminded until it becomes second nature. Then you teach to round something square, then take it to a point. The second day get them to design something with what they have learned, i have had surprising results that way. With that you can build a simple set of tongs. That takes in drawing, rounding, tool design and riveting. Very simple exercises and valuable. As you teach them the basic skills get them to build the tools to make what they are designing and it is much more rewarding and when they go home it is a lot easier for them to build new stuff and tooling up for a job is learned right from the start.
And on and on it can go from here. This course design can be 2 days or 2 weeks, what ever you have planned.

[KevinD]

Rich - Thanks for the questions. I'll have to read that post again...and again.

Gerald - I have thought about getting Mark's book and reading it before the class. I sent an email to see if there are any spots left for the class. It is the "fundamentals" class. If I can get in, thats the class I'm going to throw money at first.

Larry - Thanks for the link. I haven't had time this morning to check it out but I will.

Stretch and others - Thanks for the input. It is REALLY appreciated.

So far I think I have the basics of tapers and rounding but I certainly could use more practice. I've tried to make a set of tongs but nothing that I can actually use yet.

To me, one thing has stuck out in this thread.

After you and your shop are set up to the point that you can heat and move metal...the next step should be tool making. Punch's and chisel's first, then tongs.

How am I doing so far? :cool: :D

[stretch]

You just said it quicker than i did.

[Jymm Hoffman]

I would highly recommend that you take a serious look at taking that class with Aspery. While I have not met him, nor taken any classes from him, I have reviewed his book and was impressed. I can not speak about the instructors for the dates you list at John C. Campbell, but will say it could be another good place to start. Try to get some reviews from others to compare if you have to choose. If you can afford it, try one at John C. and Aspery. Also try to commit your self to practice what they teach you. Just like learning a musical instrument or athletic skill, practice what the teacher shows you.

[Walking Dog]

My two cents - this is the plan of study which has served me well in my development over the last 6 years as a smith-wannabe.

I divided my time and efforts into three categories and kept moving among them. I deliberately picked out projects and events in each of these areas.

1) Practice basic skills, such as drawing out effectively, upsetting, cutting/punching, forge welding, etc. Skills need to develop over time or your growth will plateau and you will get frustrated.

2) Do projects which are realistic, but a stretch for you. Move on to bigger projects as you improve. Don't go into a production mode before you've reached the end of your learning curve.

3) Spend some time with books, at high level demos, thinking in terms of artist blacksmithing. Develop your imagination for what can be done with hot, squishy iron! Every now and then try an idea, especially one that's outside the box.

Good luck!

[larrynjr]

Another aspect stressed by Mr. C is repetition and consistancy. "Make your item as well as you can, then make 50 copies of it. When you're done, throw out the first 45 and make 50 more copies of the last 5 (presumably the better quality copies) Repeat this process till you've made 5-10,000 copies. At that point you can start considering yourself skilled.............on that item!"
Production work must be consistant!

[Jim Black]

I think that the first thing that I would teach would be the proper construction of the fire and the depth of the same.The second thing would be the construction the the proper tooling and its uses.The third thing would be the identiication of the material being used.The forth thing would be the heat applyed to different metals.The fifth thing would be the tempering and annealing of those metals.The sixth thing would be the welding of those metals in the forge.The final thing would be shortcuts and yours ideas.The oxide code of metals varies so much with all of the combinations that we have today, but I stil think that its necessary to have the basic color codes

[Ice Czar]

the free downloads of the British Blacksmithing books

kes ka say free?

(Qu'est-ce que c'est)

[Ian]

I've been 'teaching' classes myself for a couple of months now (I say 'teaching' like that deliberately, I know sweet Fanny Adams about Smithing when I really think about it) and the course was tailored to what the people who took the classes wanted. By that I simply mean that they were shown the very basics of Smithing such as pointing, scrolling and bending etc etc, nothing complex at all, and then asked to come up with somthing they wanted to make.
I then explained to each individual in brief outline how the project could be done, what tools and material was needed and then let them do it under my overall supervision. As each new tool or technique was needed they were shown it.
Personally, while I can definately see the advantages to this style of class in terms of 'customer satisfaction' I do not consider it a class that is trying to teach blacksmithing as a whole for obvious reasons. I'm merely the man doing what I'm getting paid to do.

I could set out my own idea's of a 'proper' course, and when I'm running my own forge one day thats what I'll do :D

[KevinD]

kes ka say free?

(Qu'est-ce que c'est)

http://www.countryside.gov.uk/LAR/archive/publications/craftpublications.asp

[HWooldridge]

The initial school question is an interesting subject and one I have thought about quite a bit - this is one of my "lottery dreams"...to put together a fine blacksmithing school in the tradition of a European program. I have often studied pictures of Otto Schmirler's shop and think it is a good archetype for a school setting. However, even with unlimited funds, there are several things to consider:

The fact is not many people really want to go into 'blacksmithing' as a profession. Sure, there is more interest now than when ABANA was created in the '70's but it's still not much for real throughput. Therefore, an instructor will likely deal with a few professionals or apprentices who may or may not be serious and the rest will be hobbyists. Of the hobbyists, one will want to make tools, one will want to make swords, one will want to produce cow bells, etc. The trick then is to develop a course that will appeal to a variety of folks but still allow students to go home and pursue their own interests.

A little over twenty-five years ago, I started out as a hobbyist and soon moved to production work for another smith who was physically incapacitated but had a thriving business. This was quite fortunate for me because I got the repetition that naturally goes with production, which other folks have quite correctly stated is so important. I struggled a great deal on my own trying to do certain things and eventually visited the other person's shop and was shown the proper way to produce the work. Subsequently, I can now do certain processes very quickly - but on the other hand, I never worked in a general shop and my forge welding skills are not at the level of a smith who does that with regularity. Every acquired skill comes down to consistent practice and good teaching (the European apprentice system at work).

There are some things which should always be taught when working hot metal. Fire control, hammer control and the basic forge processes are what differentiate the blacksmith from the fabricator. I believe these things should be the root of any school program.