ThorsHammer82 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 As I've posted earlier, I recently picked up a 5" post vice from a forum member that was in need of a little TLC. It's is just waiting on it's final paint, and a place to sit. I want to make a non-mobile mount for it outside my cramped (12'x16') shop. I've taken care to give it an industrial finish to be able to stand up to the rigors of the elements until I extend the roof of my shop. But I want to know if my plans for the mount will be adequate. I plan on mounting the vice along with a post anvil, and a vertically mounted RRT Anvil on 6"x6" (5.5"x5.5") posts set in concrete. The plan is to have 3 posts set flush together in an "L" or "T" formation. The hole I've dug so far is 20" across in the center and 24" deep from the ground surface. The top of the hole is 36" across x 6" deep. Will this be enough for my purposes if I use rebar to reinforce the connection between center core, and the top flange? I plan on setting a plate in the concrete at the base of the post vise to spread the impact/load of the leg across more of the concrete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 forbidden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culver Creek Hunt Club Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Are you talking about a wooden post? 6x6? If it is wood I would use pressure treated. place about 6" of clean stone in the bottom of the hole.(especially if you have poor draining soil) and tar coat the sides of the posts with a tar. DO NOT coat the bottom of the posts. think of the posts as a group of straws. you want any moisture to find it's way down and into the stone. Coat to about 6" above the top of the concrete. Edited July 14, 2015 by Culver Creek Hunt Club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 This comment can no longer be edited. It may have been moved or deleted, or too much time may have passed since it was posted for it to be edited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 Yes, wooden posts. They are salvaged rough cut timbers. The sides were already painted, but I can definitely treat them more if needed.Do I need to dig deeper for the clean stone? Or will 18" be deep enough for the concrete? the soil drains well enough, and the vice will be mostly covered by a tarp until I extend the roof, at least during the rainy months. or as we say on this side of WA, year round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 This comment can no longer be edited. It may have been moved or deleted, or too much time may have passed since it was posted for it to be edited.I've started sending error messages to Charlie at IPS with a request for an explanation. I just sent off one that said there are no messages in the "It Followed me Home" thread just because there are 176 pages of posts doesn't mean there's anything there. Charlie started sending me nothing but boiler plate responses saying all the issues have been addressed or resolved. I don't know if filling his/er inbox with complaints and examples of their lack wit software will help but it's some satisfaction.I posted my email address in the "found some issues or problems or whatever" thread if anyone wants to ask offline I'll send you Charlie's email address and we can help share the pain with her/im.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culver Creek Hunt Club Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Yes, wooden posts. They are salvaged rough cut timbers. The sides were already painted, but I can definitely treat them more if needed.Do I need to dig deeper for the clean stone? Or will 18" be deep enough for the concrete? the soil drains well enough, and the vice will be mostly covered by a tarp until I extend the roof, at least during the rainy months. or as we say on this side of WA, year round.personally I would be in the ground 50% of your above ground heath to top of the vise. With the diameter you described, I can't see an issue. just don't cup the end of timbers in the concrete. is will create accelerated rot. they have to make it to the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culver Creek Hunt Club Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Not that familiar with your climate. how deep does the frost get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Strongly suggest professionally treated wood for in ground use. Ex utility poles for example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culver Creek Hunt Club Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Strongly suggest professionally treated wood for in ground use. Ex utility poles for exampleYou don't care for conventional pressure treated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 frost if/when we see it is only a few inches. I'm not worried so much about upheaval from frost so much as stability and strength. I've already belled out the bottom of the hole to prevent upheaval anyway. I'm thinking I might need to go to 24"-28" diameter on the core because If I leave it at 20 I've only got about 2" of concrete at the corners in some parts. Maybe I'll just square out those spots to give me more concrete there...(edit - Frost line requirements per city is only 12" deep. So little to no frost)So far for the vise rebuild and the mount I've spent out of my bank account $6.99 for the color paint I wanted for the vise. Everything else so far has been sourced for free. Even the concrete will be purchased with a gift card I got for my birthday. So I'm stuck with the wood I've got. I'll be treating the sides with tar/asphalt, and the top of the post as well, but leave the bottom open on top of crushed gravel. The distance from the Ring on the leg to the bottom of the mount is 34" which should give me a finished height at the top of the vise of about 42". So if I go with the 50% rule to the top of the vise I should go down another 6"-8" then fill with 6" of gravel which would make my posts for the vise ~58" and shorter for the post the post anvil will be on. one of the taller posts will be notched to accept the RRT anvil set vertically at a later date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 All my conventionally pressure treated wood has been done by professionals; you have amateurs doing it out where you are? The chemicals used for the best treatments are fairly toxic and controlled I thought, not to mention the "pressure" aspect.Used utility poles are often fairly available used where I have lived (east coast, midwest, southwest) and my current shop used 2 40' poles with only 10 years in ground on them, cut in two to make the truss supports for the 20'x30' addition. My local electrical Coop would give removed poles away to members; took me a year for my name to get to the top of the list; but the ones I got will certainly outlive me if not my kids as well! (expanding a train line so "new" poles were pulled and not reused.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 by treating, I meant putting something on the outside (tar/asphalt) to seal the wood. Not actual pressure treatment. The posts were previously posts in a green house that was built in the 50's and not seen any TLC for at least 10 years and show no signs of rot or decay besides a splintered end from the skid steer knocking the building over. I couldn't say whether or not they have been treated, but based on the age I'm guessing not. I understand the concern about premature rot/decay but I honestly doubt I'll be at this property long enough for it to affect me. It's been an unusually dry summer so far so I'm hoping if I get everything sealed and in the ground I won't see any shrinkage, and if I seal it properly I shouldn't see much expansion in the winter to cause the concrete to crack on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Might very well have been treated, for example they have been using creosote for over 100 years now. If they were it was probably done with the even nastier stuff than is allowed now. The other possibility is the use of wood species that resist rot naturally---like red wood. If you don't know and can't tell please use caution working the stuff! (I don't mean don't use it; just use precautions as if it was pressure treated). Edited July 14, 2015 by ThomasPowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Steel would work good. I mounted my outdoor post vise on a 5" pipe buried in concrete 5' deep. I also filled the pipe with concrete. This setup has set outside for over twenty years. I grease the screw and oil the pivot every few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 yes, steel would work good. but I'm using what I've got, and I don't have a steel pipe large enough/thick enough for this purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 You don't care for conventional pressure treated?Most conventional PT wood is no longer ground contact rated, especially the wood you find at big box stores. Some specialty lumber yards do carry ground contact rated PT, but it's more expensive. I have 30+ year old CCA treated lumber that has been in contact with the ground the whole time and still looks as good as the day I built it. Newer ACQ treated lumber like 4x4 posts it seems like I need to replace them every 5-6 years now due to rot. The new stuff just doesn't hold up as well as it used to, and is quite corrosive to fasteners, especially alum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I plan on mounting the vice along with a post anvil, and a vertically mounted RRT Anvil on 6"x6" (5.5"x5.5") posts set in concrete. The plan is to have 3 posts set flush together in an "L" or "T" formation.I'm not sure I'd want all those things right on top of each other that way. There are times when I want/need to be able to move all the way around my anvil or vise. Piled all together like is sounds like you are going to do seems awkward to me. I want things close, but not on top of each other.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Try contacting your local WashDOT highways maintenance office and talk to the guardrail crew. They might let you take some of the broken or replaced guardrail posts. They're usually rated for a minimum 10 years.Be sure you use plenty of clean gravel in the bottom of your hole, go deeper rather than less. Unless I miss recall the Olympic Peninsula it isn't quite rain forest. It's going to need a dry well / French drain. Basically a reverse well that allows water to flow freely down below where it'll impact the structure and offers enough surface to the surrounding soils the water can drain easily. Clean gravel won't plug up or inhibit the flow like a compactable gravel will.If you get a lot of rain you might want to provide a little drainage away from the post hole or being a dry well it will literally draw water from all around. Grade it so it has to flow up hill to get to it.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Hit a scrap yard for some big pipe, or tubing. I would go with steel before wood in this application.If you must do wood, what about above ground brackets bolting it too the concrete? This way the wood is above ground, and easier to replace down the road. You better be real sure this is where you want them before going through all this trouble. My vise is mounted on a 188# base that is very stable, yet can be moved if necessary. Edited July 15, 2015 by BIGGUNDOCTOR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Coating the portion in ground with roofing ashfalt (tar) and raping in plastic has been shown to work well (ice dam barrier works well) setting wood in cement traps moisture next to the wood. This exelerates the decompisition. The foot bellow and the 6" above are your primary isues, some drill a long hole and fill it with preservitive and plug it in this area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Those guardrail posts would be sweet in this application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 all guard rails around here are now steel posts with cable rails.The concrete will be shaped to flow water away from the posts, and the ground in the area already does this.I've had plenty of time to think about the location, and I'm confident it will suffice as long as at this current property.If I don't move in the next 2-3 years, I'll be extending the roof of my shop over the area anyway so it only has to last me a couple years at most.After that I'll re-evaluate the mount and when I do eventually move, I'll move the vice to a mobile mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Just like everything in a smithy is a consumable; all locations of smithing tools are changeable---some just take more work to move than others. You have the right viewpoint get it in and in use and you can always change it later! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I brought home quite a bit of the galvy guard rail posts, used some for the sill plate on the "barn" expansion and they make nice solid posts for whatever you don't want to move.Just painting the surface with tar, mastic, etc. does nothing for the interior and it will rot out. Now, if a person were to thin the heck out of the tar even with gasoline it will penetrate the wood to depth. Please don't tell me I need to tell you to treat open buckets of gasoline like the potential incendiary devices they are. Dry the wood well, wrapping them in an electric blanket on high is better than nothing. Then stand it in the bucket of thinned preservative over night remove, let dry another day or more and THEN paint the exterior with the preservative. While one post is soaking the other can be drying in the blanket.I don't think you can still get the old tyme copper sulphate wood preservative but it was a good prep. Who needs to drink from the well eh?Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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