evbob Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Ok, I just started black smithing today and ran into a bit of a problem. I got the forge and it works great, its a cast iron bowl with a hand crank blower. I lit the fire and threw in a piece of metal, at first I used a little charcoal but that didn't seem to get it hot enough, so I add a lot more and this worked. The problem is i burned through a 14$ bag in 3 hours and just flattened a piece of metal. Sense i am new to this i am not sure if this is normal, I need help why am i burning through so much charcoal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Add your location to your profile and there may be someone close to help you get started.Charcoal is light in weight and does burn rather fast. It is not the dollar value of a bag of charcoal but the weight of the bag that is important. For instance $14 a pound is rather expensive, but $14 a ton is rather cheap.To directly answer your question, you are burning charcoal to get the heat. The more heat you need the more charcoal you will burn. It is the same with any other fuel. You must have a certain amount of heat in the fire to get the metal up to forging temperature. Fuel does not make the fire hot, air makes the fire hot. You must have enough fuel (and then some) to produce the heat you need. Usually you want a fire ball about the size of a melon with fuel on the sides and top to replace what is being burned.Look for some bituminous coal by contacting other blacksmiths or farriers in your area.Posting photos of your set up will help us see what you are working with and we can provide better answers to your questions. Edited July 13, 2015 by Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Welcome aboard Bob, glad to have you. If you pout your general location in the header and you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance.Hook up with the local blacksmithing organization and it'll really flatten the learning curve for you. An hour with an experienced smith will show you more than days of teaching yourself.What kind of charcoal? Did you break it up? How deep was it piled? And no you don't need to cran the blower hard enough to have a plume of flame shooting out of the pile. Charcoal doesn't need a lot of air but the fire needs to be deep enough to consume all the oxygen or it will scale your work to nothing.Fire management isn't the easy part f blacksmithing but it's probably the single most important and it takes practice. Getting with someone experienced will answer your questions by showing you.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evbob Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Glenn it was a 18lb bag of hard wood lump charcoal. My forge bowl is 2 1/2 feet wide and about 4in deep. I had a good pile over the air vent but everytime I pulled the metal out I had to add another hand full of charcoal just to keep it going. I live in chico CA, and I have talked to some black smith's about how to forge and got some training but we didn't talk about fuel. I am still young and work part time so I don't have alot of money, that in mind I won't be able to do this if it is costing me 30$ a day. I'm willing to put money in it but that just seems like alot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Look into building a gas forge, that will end your issues with the charcoal. You'll find many who use charcoal will make their own. If you have access to a sams or cosco I've seen jumbo bags of the stuff at a pretty decent price. If your getting is fro a grocery store it's gonna cost. The other thing, your using a coal forge for charcoal. They are different fuels. While the charcoal will work, it does require a different configuration to get the most out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Your forge bowl sounds large to me. Picts would help understand it better. A smaller bowl would help concentrate your fuel better. My firepot isn't any bigger than 12" x 12" at the top. ( I'll grant you I burn coal vs charcoal.) However the longest part of my forge table is about 2 1/2 foot long. The pile of material I'd have to make on that would be huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 xxxx forbiden deamona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evbob Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Thank you for all of your post, but no ones really told me why I'm burning though so much charcoal. I have been researching and people say that the same stuff I used they used and it lasted 12 hours and burned alot hotter. I am looking into ordering some smithing coal, but i am still wondering why my charcoal is doing this. I read in one post someone used water to spray the top alittle, but that was with coal. Would doing this work with charcoal and make my bag last longer? The pic is the charcoal I used. Edited July 13, 2015 by evbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 It has been mentioned already a couple times that if you show us a picture it'll help more than words. You know the old saying 'a picture is worth 1000 words'? This is one of those things where's it's especially true. Take some time and take some pictures of your forge so we know just exactly what you're workin with then someone might be better able to assist you. I use charcoal and I've never had 12 hours of heat from one bag even using a little water around the edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evbob Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) I'm sorry i was out of town for the night, will post a picture when I get home. Did water help you? How long did a bag last you and was it like mine? Edited July 13, 2015 by evbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 When I burn charcoal in a coal forge I place a couple of fire bricks in the forge pot to make a narrower but deeper fire U rather than V. That way only the charcoal that is actively heating the metal is burning and not the whole pot full of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evbob Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 1436806665633-1595670592.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 &$@!! :-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Charcoal fires are generally smaller (6-8"deep and some 4" above the air. In the case using charcoal in a bottom blast you may need 6" under the steel and 2-4" on top. So in the case of a bottom blast rivet forge like yours you need to build a "ducks nest" or a bowl about 6"across and as high as the notches in the side of the forge pan. Plain old adobe mud (clay soil) works just fine and is cheap. With a bottom blast you can "coke" wood (make hot charcoal embers) right in the forge. Pile up pieces no bigger than a cigaret pack, be it cut up limbs or cut offs and scrap from a house project. Just pile it along the sides and let it burn down to coals. You will learn to manage the charcoal and wood. Charcoal, liking small fires can be efficient once you get the size of fire right and learn to give just the amount of air (hint, with soft wood fire fleas is to much air) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Water helped some but I never put much, just enought to keep from every bit of charcoal from burnin at one time. I've used royal oak and cowboy brand. I've heard some people have problems with garbage in one or the other but I haven't had any trouble with either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evbob Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Excuse me if I’m wrong but what you saying is I need to make the sides of my forge taller so I can put more charcoal under the metal, makes sense. Also the forge I have is it made for coal or charcoal, and what brand or type do you suggest? Edited July 13, 2015 by evbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evbob Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 M Cochran about how many hours can a bag last you of royal Oak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Not so much, you need to make a bowl in your fire pan to keep your fuel concentrated in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evbob Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Oh ok! About the secound part of my question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Your fuel consumption issue is most likely to big a fire. You can only hand forge about 6" of hot steel at a time, so keep your fir ball down to about the size of both fist put together. Almost all bottom blast dorges are made for coal, charcoal will work with a bit of modification. Use what ever brand if Lump you can get cheap, beaware that some isn't fully converted so as to enhance the "smoke flavor" this will lead to more fire fleas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I can't give you a accurate answer. I've never really payed attention. I can tell you that it'll be different under different circumstances like general forging as compared to forge welding. Most of the time I'm welding I burn charcoal and lately I've been using a lot of scrap wood as Charles suggests instead of throwin it in the burn pile and buyin charcoal. I can say if I'm in my shop doin small stuff I can be out there for six hours or so and still have some charcoal left from an 18lb bag. I tend to leave my air goin and waste fuel while workin the piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evbob Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Where do you think I should get good coal, thats not to expencive. Sorry for so many questions I'm very new to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Out in Chino? Maybe a farrier/horseshoe supply house. The other opprion is to join your local blacksmiths assotiation. Charcoal works, infact for the first few thousand years (and first few hundred here) it was the fuel of choice. It just doesn't like bottom blast forges so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evbob Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 See that's what im saying you got 6+ hours out of a bag, and I got 3. Im going to try what people have said today and I'll get back to you if it last longer this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Wow, a young man that has a head on his shoulders! I sir am proud to share this forum with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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