guillotine punch?

[SJS]

Colour, honour, and I would have sworn wisdom had an e in it when I was young;-) and don't get me started on "Shirley and me went to the window"...  If it is stupid to say "Me went to the window" in the singular, I maintain it is still stupid in the specific plural construction. If you are self-conscious about referring to yourself with I then use a nonspecific plural "we went to the window"

 

[Damion78]

I have never been a big fan of grammar Nazism, our language is a living construct always changing, we do not speak the language of our fathers why should we write it. I believe it limits self expression and individuality. It is not my fault if people lack the comprehensive skills to discern the context of a written piece. We have a strong enough base to venture out a bit to gain a bit of self in our words. What would Shakespeare say and who would understand him lol.

[JNewman]

My favorite anvil hold down is also one of the simplest.   Set a stand up behind your anvil at the height of the top of your stock on top of your anvil.  Set a heavier bar 3/4" square or what ever you have with one end on the anvil the other on the stand.  Hang a heavy weight from the middle of the bar.   When you take the stock out of the fire and place it on the anvil you set the anvil end of the bar on your work.

 

The clamping is really fast, it can be done anywhere on the anvil, you don't need to make a special tool and the clamping pressure can be easily adjusted by using a heavier or lighter weight or by moving the weight closer or further from the anvil.  Try this hold down it will only take a few minutes to set up. 

[billyO]

Perhaps we should change the  title of this thread to "guillotine punch...and other ramblings"

 

Damion, although I agree about language being an organic entity that does change over time, there's a time for creativity (ie Shakespeare) and a time for clear, concise and accurate terminology (ie, strike when I nod my head). 

I'm sure you've heard the saying:  "Do what I mean, not what I say."  That's a lot easier if you say what you mean....

 

 

 

I (like many in supervisory positions), have to deal with examples like this on a daily basis in my paying profession.  We've all hear the phrase, "No pain, no gain" that comes from the bodybuilding and exercising world.  That's not true when it comes to rehab, and I have to explain this to my patients on an almost daily basis.  So yes, what you say and how you say it does matter. 

 

(Also, my Mother was an English/grammar teacher in elementary school when I was growing up, so that may influence my bias....)

[ThomasPowers]

Throw in border Spanglish and work in some Chinese too and learning to relax and tease out the meaning becomes a necessity!
Mi pickup esta roja!

[Charles R. Stevens]

Creativity is one thing, teaching are children that they are too stupid to read and write is another.
As to hold downs, maybe the anvil on the ground has its advantages, lol. We hay have to open a thread as to what foot wear is best to hold stock with...

[SJS]

Using words like "Nazism" is a rhetorical technique designed to embarrass your opponent, put them on the defensive, and generally shut down debate. I maintain that grammar and language have rules for a reason, because it is nice when I say something, you decode what I encoded. I am all for creativity, but not learning the rules, isn't creative, and ignoring the rules because none of your friends say things that way isn't creative either... But I suppose I am an old narrow minded fuddy-duddy, because I also believe in absolute TRUTH, so it is perfectly alright to disregard everything I say because you choose to operate on a genetic fallacy, since I am obviously a Grammar Nazi there could be nothing of value in what I have said... 

 

Grammar, rhetoric, and logic, education just hasn't been the same since they lost the trivium;-) 

[Damion78]

LoL grammar Nazism is a term I use for people that are so stuck on the structure of grammar that they make it the main point in analyzing a persons intellect instead of interpreting or judging the content I find that it also hints at my belief that being over strict about grammar is some what obsessive and overbearing. Rules are great to a point like when someone needs to convey information in a specific writing style like in academics or in the work place. When a rule is only a rule because of tradition and does not give weight to the actual comprehensive structure of the language it is time to change and adapt to new things and leave the old behind except in areas where it may still apply. Many of the rules or habits we use today were once thought of as grammar violations of the past so when do we drawl a line and just stick to the rules. To each their own truth is language and the rules will change and those that won't accept that will be left behind and miss out.

[VaughnT]

Um, no, Damion.  You don't get to pick and choose when you throw out the rules of grammar.  SJS is spot on the money.

 

The problem with your position is that there's no command structure deciding what gets thrown out and what doesn't.  You might want to get rid of the comma or semi-colon, but others don't.  Who is right?  Your lack of punctuation in the last entry only served to make you look uneducated and/or lazy.  I can assume that you did it intentionally, to drive home your point, but I can't say that for certain.  That's the difference between inference and implication.  It also made reading the paragraph far more difficult that it needed to be.

 

Please give us an example of when a "rule is only a rule because of tradition".

[John McPherson]

Good grammar, like good hygiene, is part of a social norm. If you choose to skip either on purpose, don't get mad because the other person notices, and judges you accordingly.

[Damion78]

I may not choose when to throw out a rule but society will, and has chosen to do so many times in the past. The changing of the rules is really out of our hands as to the when and where. Your stance on the subject, as I knew it would only served my point. You believe the lack of punctuation signifies a lack of intellect in an individual. I would say ones difficulty in reading without it highlights their own lack of intellect. We live in a time where the written word is used to communicate more than any other time in history. Short hand will become common place and rules will change when speaking in text. Knife is still spelt with k and a comma is still needed before but even though to most the word alone indicates a pause as do many, q must be followed by u and many of our letters make the same sound, double letters serve no real purpose as any that could be confused are made clear in context, the question mark indicates a question yet so does the sentence structure and content, I could go on all day about useless rules in writing, but will not as it's a pointless argument. The comma is one of the funniest if you can tell it needs to be there then why do you need it. I would also note that I do think it is important to learn and use most rules in an academic setting. Ain't is now considered proper. Unintelligent people all over the world are managing to communicate quite well all over the internet without following the rules. We should invent a sarcasm mark.

[Damion78]

I may not choose when to throw out a rule but society will, and has chosen to do so many times in the past. The changing of the rules is really out of our hands as to the when and where. Your stance on the subject, as I knew it would only served my point. You believe the lack of punctuation signifies a lack of intellect in an individual. I would say ones difficulty in reading without it highlights their own lack of intellect. We live in a time where the written word is used to communicate more than any other time in history. Short hand will become common place and rules will change when speaking in text. Knife is still spelt with k and a comma is still needed before but even though to most the word alone indicates a pause as do many, q must be followed by u and many of our letters make the same sound, double letters serve no real purpose as any that could be confused are made clear in context, the question mark indicates a question yet so does the sentence structure and content, I could go on all day about useless rules in writing, but will not as it's a pointless argument. The comma is one of the funniest if you can tell it needs to be there then why do you need it. I would also note that I do think it is important to learn and use most rules in an academic setting. Ain't is now considered proper. Unintelligent people all over the world are managing to communicate quite well all over the internet without following the rules. We should invent a sarcasm mark.

[Damion78]

I may not choose when to throw out a rule but society will, and has chosen to do so many times in the past. The changing of the rules is really out of our hands as to the when and where. Your stance on the subject, as I knew it would only served my point. You believe the lack of punctuation signifies a lack of intellect in an individual. I would say ones difficulty in reading without it highlights their own lack of intellect. We live in a time where the written word is used to communicate more than any other time in history. Short hand will become common place and rules will change when speaking in text. Knife is still spelt with k and a comma is still needed before but even though to most the word alone indicates a pause as do many, q must be followed by u and many of our letters make the same sound, double letters serve no real purpose as any that could be confused are made clear in context, the question mark indicates a question yet so does the sentence structure and content, I could go on all day about useless rules in writing, but will not as it's a pointless argument. The comma is one of the funniest if you can tell it needs to be there then why do you need it. I would also note that I do think it is important to learn and use most rules in an academic setting. Ain't is now considered proper. Unintelligent people all over the world are managing to communicate quite well all over the internet without following the rules. We should invent a sarcasm mark.

[Damion78]

I may not choose when to throw out a rule but society will, and has chosen to do so many times in the past. The changing of the rules is really out of our hands as to the when and where. Your stance on the subject, as I knew it would only served my point. You believe the lack of punctuation signifies a lack of intellect in an individual. I would say ones difficulty in reading without it highlights their own lack of intellect. We live in a time where the written word is used to communicate more than any other time in history. Short hand will become common place and rules will change when speaking in text. Knife is still spelt with k and a comma is still needed before but even though to most the word alone indicates a pause as do many, q must be followed by u and many of our letters make the same sound, double letters serve no real purpose as any that could be confused are made clear in context, the question mark indicates a question yet so does the sentence structure and content, I could go on all day about useless rules in writing, but will not as it's a pointless argument. The comma is one of the funniest if you can tell it needs to be there then why do you need it. I would also note that I do think it is important to learn and use most rules in an academic setting. Ain't is now considered proper. Unintelligent people all over the world are managing to communicate quite well all over the internet without following the rules. We should invent a sarcasm mark.

[Damion78]

I may not choose when to throw out a rule but society will, and has chosen to do so many times in the past. The changing of the rules is really out of our hands as to the when and where. Your stance on the subject, as I knew it would only served my point. You believe the lack of punctuation signifies a lack of intellect in an individual. I would say ones difficulty in reading without it highlights their own lack of intellect. We live in a time where the written word is used to communicate more than any other time in history. Short hand will become common place and rules will change when speaking in text. Knife is still spelt with k and a comma is still needed before but even though to most the word alone indicates a pause as do many, q must be followed by u and many of our letters make the same sound, double letters serve no real purpose as any that could be confused are made clear in context, the question mark indicates a question yet so does the sentence structure and content, I could go on all day about useless rules in writing, but will not as it's a pointless argument. The comma is one of the funniest if you can tell it needs to be there then why do you need it. I would also note that I do think it is important to learn and use most rules in an academic setting. Ain't is now considered proper. Unintelligent people all over the world are managing to communicate quite well all over the internet without following the rules. We should invent a sarcasm mark.

[Damion78]

I may not choose when to throw out a rule but society will, and has chosen to do so many times in the past. The changing of the rules is really out of our hands as to the when and where. Your stance on the subject, as I knew it would only served my point. You believe the lack of punctuation signifies a lack of intellect in an individual. I would say ones difficulty in reading without it highlights their own lack of intellect. We live in a time where the written word is used to communicate more than any other time in history. Short hand will become common place and rules will change when speaking in text. Knife is still spelt with k and a comma is still needed before but even though to most the word alone indicates a pause as do many, q must be followed by u and many of our letters make the same sound, double letters serve no real purpose as any that could be confused are made clear in context, the question mark indicates a question yet so does the sentence structure and content, I could go on all day about useless rules in writing, but will not as it's a pointless argument. The comma is one of the funniest if you can tell it needs to be there then why do you need it. I would also note that I do think it is important to learn and use most rules in an academic setting. Ain't is now considered proper. Unintelligent people all over the world are managing to communicate quite well all over the internet without following the rules. We should invent a sarcasm mark.

[Damion78]

I'm not sur what happened with the multi post sorry for that.

[VaughnT]

That's what happens when you offend the grammar gods, Damion.

 

It should be noted that I never stated categorically that you were unintelligent, only that your writing made you appear either unintelligent or lazy, and made reading your text a lot harder than it needed to be.  As of yet, you have not made a compelling case for breaching the rules of grammar.  If you know there should be a comma or apostrophe, yet refuse to install one, why?  What did you possibly gain from not using one?  How much time did you save over the course of your lifetime?

 

When I had a mobile phone and was sending texts, I made sure to spell everything correctly and to use decent punctuation.  Why?  Because not doing so saved me no time at all, and made me look like an ignorant buffoon.  And I was using a standard keypad to do it all on.  Am I some great maestro of the english language?  Nope.  I just believe that the rules are there for a very good reason.  Developed over hundreds or thousands of years, people have found that this way of communicating is greatly different

 

The difference between can't and cant is pretty big, and while I can rely on context to identify the definition meant, why in the world would I want to have my reading made even more complicated than it already is?  As I stated earlier, your lack of punctuation actually slowed down my reading because I had to backtrack and confirm each and every sentence.  So, if it doesn't help in any measurable way, and has a negative impact on the end use, why do it?  Or, why not go for the whole hog and simply do away with periods and capital letters to signify the beginnings of sentences?  Why put that silly double space between two sentences?  

 

Have you made your punch holder, yet?  All this talk about grammar is getting mighty tiresome and we need to get back on topic.

[L Smith]

I really hesitate to get in the middle of this.  However I was told many years ago this is why property owners pay school tax.