Bentiron1946 Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Looks like this would be a real handy tool for rolling out mokume gane or pattern welded steel. Has it been tried on either of those materials? And what were the results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 Pattern welded steel was the original use case as I recall and it works quite well for drawing out billets---especially when you draw them way out and then cut and stack so instead of doubling you go 5-10 times each welding cycle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 The upper roller is longer so that the lower one can clear the pillow blocks. that IS sort of true, I do use pillow blocks, but the design did not use pillow blocks, rather called for drilling out a block of brass to hold the rollers shaft. But I answered no because I assumed he was talking about how a few people use a 2 inch and a 3 inch diameter roller, where as I found they do not need to be sized the same or differently this works well either way.. Looks like this would be a real handy tool for rolling out mokume gane or pattern welded steel. Has it been tried on either of those materials? And what were the results? Yes works fine Pattern welded steel was the original use case as I recall and it works quite well for drawing out billets---especially when you draw them way out and then cut and stack so instead of doubling you go 5-10 times each welding cycle Actually according to Mr McDonald, he built it for drawing out the reins of his tongs. Later a friend of his, saw it and thought (correctly) that it would be nice for drawing billets of PW steel. That is why I got it, makes 4 hours of hammering a billet into about 15-20 minutes for drawing. the CD is put together well, much over documentation if there is such a thing, also includes commentary and back ground of the mill and its creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 29, 2011 Share Posted September 29, 2011 OK, good to know; the fellow I know with one uses it only for PW stuff and uses one of his powerhammers for things like reins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Völund Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Thanks for the answer. Nice machine Made a "belt" hammer for a while ago. The hammer realy helps making Pattern welded steel Now i found another electrical motor and need to practice some turning work Planning to make the rolls the same size. Are you using mild steel to the rolls. >Have some carbon steel avaible at a diameter of 1 3/4" Are you using brass for the lower roll. I have some pillow blocks i will try to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Steve is quite right about the diameters. It is better if they are the same! That CD sounds like I might need to get it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkunkler Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Planning to make the rolls the same size. Are you using mild steel to the rolls. >Have some carbon steel avaible at a diameter of 1 3/4" Are you using brass for the lower roll. I have some pillow blocks i will try to use. According to McDonald mild steel should be fine, although I used some higher carbon shafting I already had. I wouldn't go smaller than 2" on the rollers. The smaller diameter would give you a steeper climb angle and not have enough "bite" to pull the stock through unless you reduced the stock in very small increments with each pass. I used bronze bushings inside the lower roller. I don't think pillow blocks would work well on the lower roller because of clearance problems. I really recommend getting the Hugh McDonald plans and stick close to the basic mechanics of it, although I think you can be flexible in the roller drive speed reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 What final rolling speed do you want? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkunkler Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 What final rolling speed do you want? Phil Around 10-12 ft/min. or 20 RPM seems to work good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I run at 22 RPM, too fast will cause issues slower is better than faster with this. its all covered in the CD ROM. I used bronze bushings in the lower roller shaft. med grade pillow block for upper. My rollers themselves are over kill, used Chrome/Moly, I had help from a Tool and Die friend, that had it laying around. its milled to .002 tolerance I prefer using the the belt drive along with the 2 gear/chain drives, as the belt acts as a natural clutch. A commercial maker was using reduction boxes for commercial resales, and they were tearing themselves up because the drive had no where to go in a bind, and as a result they did not do well. where as my belt will slip rather that tear itself up. that is also covered in the CD Rom I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Völund Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 According to McDonald mild steel should be fine, although I used some higher carbon shafting I already had. I wouldn't go smaller than 2" on the rollers. The smaller diameter would give you a steeper climb angle and not have enough "bite" to pull the stock through unless you reduced the stock in very small increments with each pass. I used bronze bushings inside the lower roller. I don't think pillow blocks would work well on the lower roller because of clearance problems. I really recommend getting the Hugh McDonald plans and stick close to the basic mechanics of it, although I think you can be flexible in the roller drive speed reduction. Yes, you are probably right about the pillow block. Don't have any bronze bearing, maybe one could use two single ball bearings with 17 mm axis? Regarding the roller i only have some mild steel that is 2". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkunkler Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Yes, you are probably right about the pillow block. Don't have any bronze bearing, maybe one could use two single ball bearings with 17 mm axis? Regarding the roller i only have some mild steel that is 2". I really think you need the bronze. There is a lot of force being exerted and you need something that can handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I really think you need the bronze. There is a lot of force being exerted and you need something that can handle it. Is there somewhere to purchase bronze bearings or does one need to have access to a milling machine and/or metal lathe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 http://www.mcmaster.com/#bronze-tubing/=ef65xi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Perhaps I should have said rectangular bronze bearing blocks such as in the diagrams for the roller mill. Either that or someway to mount tubular bronze bearings that clear the upper mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Get a block of steel drill a undersize hole ream to size then press your bronze bearing into that hole. Or buy a block of bearing bronze and drill a hole in that. Also if you have developed the skills one can saw and file to make some of these parts by hand. I have cut key ways with a cape chisel then filed to size. I have also made nuts and bolts with with hand tools. I have made many parts by first forging than filing to size. It can be done though it will take a lot of time. I have seen clock gears in Spain that were forged complete with forge welds than carefully filed to shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I thank you for the information. I greatly appreciate your time and effort to be of assistance. If a person does not have problems in their hands, then yes using a file to make parts is not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Its funny I find the key board and mouse have done more harm to my hands and wrists than a hammer and file ever did. I also find that switching activities in other words using the hands in a different way opposite of the way that caused the cramp or injury can go a long way towards undoing the hurt. Frequent stretching and hydration are key. In an average day I drink at least 1.5 Lt of water. If I don't I feel out of sorts. Also good sharp files (most people have dull files) and properly ground chisels reduce the effort required significantly. If you are wearing yourself out the tool is dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I agree completely. I don't wish to highjack this thread, so in the next couple of days I will try to start a *different* thread with photographs and measurements of the ergonomic keyboard stand that I designed and built, using feedback provided by a physical therapist who specializes in workplace injuries. People with hand injuries from keyboarding might find it interesting and useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 these are great tools. I initially found mine disapointing compared to a power hammer . but they come into their own for long blades ,. I passed mine on and will be remaking it soon. I had a nearly 3 inch top roller and have since used a 2 inch top roller version .The 2 inch version is much more likely to spin when it meats an obstruction where as the 3 jammed , 2 was more powerfull bigger bite 3 inch a lot smother. the next one I make will be hydraulic motor as I had a hard linked gearbox to chain drive and managed to bend chain teeth and jam the box and break various parts of the drive chain. you WILL find the limit of these machines and its best they have a "fail" built in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Völund Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Hi again Back to the bearings, found some oil bronze bearings. Maybe these could work. Slightly smaller in dimension, 20 mm shaft and 20 mm long but ready Any one knows if these will stand the pressure. As i understand these ar made of sintered bronze. So they don’t need any lube hole, and are pre lubricated. But i suppose not as hard as ordinary bronze ? Does anyone have some experience of oil bronze bearings for low rpm and high force.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I don't buy prelube as permanent lube. It will take little effort to make accommodations for lube now. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 sintered bronze is too soft it will get crushed in short order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 MIne are left over Ampco I would never pay those prices tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 What I would do would be to either follow Steve`s advice and stick with what the man who developed and refined this particular machine suggests in his instructions or do some in depth research on appropriate alternative bearings for high stress/load,low RPM applications. Reinventing the wheel without the appropriate knowledge is a sure way to get left broke and unhappy by the side of the trail. Ball and sintered bronze,permanently lubed bushings are not the way to go here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now