Sock Troll Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 Greetings gentlemen! I recently built a Lively style washtub forge to explore my interest in blacksmithing, and have decided this whole "fire management" thing is a pain my rear. I would rather spend more time forging, and less time fiddling with charcoal to get my fire just right. First, the T Burner: I'm building mine per the plans listed here: '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>, and have a few questions before I go spending my pennies. After much googling, I'm fairly certain I need an 1/8"-27 NPT tapered tap for my fitting, but a -28 is also available, can anyone confirm which I need? My coupling doesn't say, unfortunately. Also, are the HSS taps worth around 2x the price of high carbon? Next, the forge. Most home built gassers are round, while almost every commercial forge I see is a box. Is this simply because empty metal cylinders are so prevelent in the dumpster, while square forges allow maximum efficiency of materials, and therefor profit, in a mass production type setting? Common sense tells me a cylinder should be better for helping my flame swirl around the chamber. Aside from the ability to make them modular and adjustable, which I'm not currently interested in, are there any advantages to a box forge? I've had no luck finding out if one shaoe is superior to the other. I'm planning on making smallish knives, mostly, maybe some decorative hooks and such for the love of my life to hang things on. Not sure if this matters. A 10" vent pipe 14" long should give me about 340 cubic Inches after 2" lining the sides and one end. Fire brick front "door." A box forge could have interior dimensions of 7x5x10 after lining. Same front door. Either would be plenty of space to start me going in the gas world (I think :blink: ) Vent pipe would probably easier to build. Also, would stainless steel be worth spending extra money on for the increased IR reflection? I'm willing to spend more if I get a noticeable improvement out of it long term. Thanks in advance, and if this is all posted somewhere else, all I ask you post a link or what your search keywords were when you chastise me :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 While I don't have the answers (I'm in process of getting my own first gas forge together), I can say good on ya for putting your location in your profile, lol. That is a very common first time poster 'chastise8'. Now, I can say that I have found quite a lot of info on the burner using search terms like; burner, design and t-burner. The best results when I did the search from the Gas Forges page using the 'this forum' option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 A few random answers: Small commercial forges are often built in the most rugged way not the most efficient as downtime costs mount up fast, and as you noticed firebrick and refractory board are easiest used in flat surfaces.. Stainless? IF the shell's ir reflectivity makes a difference in the inside of your shell you have lined it wrong! Don't forget a back door even if it's just a 1" hole with a kaowool plug. At some point you are very likely to want to heat the center of a long bar... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sock Troll Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 LastRonin: I've lurked these forums long enough to know that much, at least! Maybe not much more, though, heh. Thomas: I thought that might be the case on the stainless, but I have seen Frosty mention the IR bit several times in other posts. I do plan on a back door, either a plug or maybe something hinged. Thank you both for your replies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 21, 2014 Share Posted May 21, 2014 IR is important on the *inside* of the forge chamber. Outside it would be nice to have enough insulation that the shell stays cool....Most of us don't bother as the cost/hassle exceeds the "perfection" savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcornell Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 1/4-28 if you're planning on using a mig-tip - but be sure you buy the correct size mig tip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Welcome aboard glad to have you. I mention SS stove pipe as a forge shell only in part for it's IR reflectivity but that is a factor. I like stove pipe for a cylindrical forge shell because: 1, doesn't need special tools tin snips, pop rivets or screws, tape measure, etc. and some skills and you're in business. Things like legs and bushing reducers mean virtually NO fabrication at all. Another factor I like about SS is it's more tolerant of heat from the forge and doesn't corrode so it lasts longer. 2, Kaowool or equivalent ceramic blanket refractory will support itself in a cylinder without anything but a little more than necessary. Two layers of 1" are better than one of 2". Fewer wrinkles and it's much easier to repair. As Thomas says commercial manufacturers produce what the customer wants and for the most part farriers are the guys who buy the most gas forges. Down time is expensive when you're making your living out of a gas forge so being able to reline one quickly is a big plus. Rigid refractories are much easier to keep in place in a rectangular or square forge and very much faster to change. In some cases they are literally pop and drop to replace. The other factor for the rectangular forge is horse shoes take a larger door than most pipe forges have and farriers often have more than one in the fire so a double door in a chamber that's not so deep fits their needs well. 1/4"-28 is the thread connection of the mig contact tips I have and can buy locally. Tweekos by name. However, one of my friends in Anchorage seems to have to use mig contact tips with metric threads. That said, use the drill bit and tap necessary to fit the mig contact tips you have available. The 1/8" FPT tapered pipe thread in my burners is for the brass fitting. That fitting is 1/8" mpt to 1/4" compression fitting. Take the correct drill bit to use for tapping for the mig tip with you to the plumbing supply to use as a go nogo" gauge to select brass fittings you can tap for the mig tip. The 1/8" pipe screws into the T fitting and the compression side connects the 1/4" copper supply line. I recommend copper supply lines and frankly nothing flammable on the burners at all. Mine are sticking straight out of the top of my forge lid will get hotter than a pistol and I don't care. Chimney effect or sometimes pressurized flame from another burner go right up them but there's no way they're going to get hot enough to melt copper or brass so it doesn't matter. Of course that's me, YMMV. I know I didn't get to your main question till near the end of one of my wordy posts. I hope I cleared it up though, if not let me know and we'll get it straightened out for you. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sock Troll Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 Frosty, your wordy posts are always welcome! My MIG tips is also 1/4"-28, I was getting lost on the tap to hold the fitting in the T. However, after a bit more googling, I'm fairly certain I know which one I need to order come pay day. Now that all the easy stuff is out of the way, I have to decide on trying to source my liner locally, or just buy it off the web. So many decisions, such little brain power! Thanks for all the help guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Try your local plumbing supply for the pipe tap, every one I've asked has them on the shelf. Heck, the one up the road from me will sell you a professional powered pipe threader, electric or gas driven. Remember when you tap the pipe thread stop a little short you don't want the fitting to bottom out or it won't be gas tight and it'll wobble. NO teflon, tape or paste, burners can get way too hot when you shut them off. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjs Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 1/8" pipe thread in the united states is 27 threads per inch. the taps come in tapered ( 1/8" NPT) which is what you need for 1/8" pipe fittings and streight (1/8" NPS) which are hard to find and only used for electric lamp fittings as far as I know. Also avliable are 1/8" NPTF fittings and taps (hard to find and more expensive than 1/8"NPT.) The threads on mig tips do not seem to be standardized so measure carefully and buy accordingly. ebay is you friend for odd size taps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 The threads on mig tips do not seem to be standardized so measure carefully and buy accordingly. ebay is you friend for odd size taps Good point for the mig contact threads, I don't think I stressed finding the tap that fits the mig tips YOU can buy enough. the welding supply you get the mig tips from will carry the taps. It's not uncommon to need to chase the threads in the gun. If you buy your contact tips from Lowes or Home Depot, you're on your own, good luck. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sock Troll Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 Thanks again guys, I've checked my tips, they are indeed 1/4"-28. Good to know about the pipe tap also. Now I just need to talk the wife into letting me use our play money on this instead of stained glass and solder.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Oh come ON, we're talking maybe $25.00 here. Have you told her about what a wonderful job your new forge is going to do enameling? She DOES enamel copper doesn't she? Get her a sample kit from Rio Grande and get her started. You'll have a MUCH better tool allowance. <wink> Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 FWIW, I was able to buy scraps of ceramic wool left over from a job from a local refractory and boiler repair (google search term) company. Too small for their use but perfect for lining small forges, I lined 2 forges for less than half what new would cost. IIRC it came out to about $15 per forge. Less than 10 for plumbing parts and I'm right on Frosty's estimation, give or take a few incidentals Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sock Troll Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 Hey now,$25 is ALOT of money some months! You try supporting a college student off my lowe's paycheck, they're expensive! All these books and manuals, hard hats, snake gaiters..... (She's working on a forestry major, even though she's a certified phlebotomist and pastry chef) Once I get my bicycle, that'll save me around $60/mo in gas, so I'll have plenty of play money then. Also, hush about the enameling! I don't think she's seen it yet, but I'm running out room in the craft room. Mine's an industrious gal, you see. Sewing, stained glass, wood burning, gardening, and school, too! I don't see how she finds the energy, let alone the talent, she's pretty good at everything she tries. I'm just the good looking trophy husband :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Trophy spouses are *supposed* to be the money sinks in the family! US$25 is my weekly allowance for all my vices and vises: books, coal, propane, beer, SCA events, Fleamarkets!!! Luckily my eldest daughter did her undergrad on her own not owing anything. Then she was accepted into the Vet program and the student loans started and we started kicking some cash to her as she couldn't work like she did undergrad with the vet school load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sock Troll Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 The plan, you see, is to get the smart half educated and in a nice job. Then I retire from my illustrious retail career, attend the ABS courses that held mere hours away from home, and spend the rest of my days playing with fire and pointy bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Sounds like a plan. You don't have cutting down trees anywhere in there do you? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sock Troll Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 No, planting some maybe, but not any cutting unless I have to. I like trees, and she can name all the local ones. It's harder to kill em after you're on a first name basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 No, planting some maybe, but not any cutting unless I have to. I like trees, and she can name all the local ones. It's harder to kill em after you're on a first name basis. Okay, that's a relief. Trees can be vindictive and their version of payback smarts. I don't know about naming them though. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 I don't know about naming them though. Frosty The Lucky. I suspect that you called a tree a few things in the past Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 "Nail driver" comes to mind ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 The comic strip "Order of the Stick" has a Dwarf that is a priest of Thor and views all trees as enemies. The reason is Thor strikes them with lightning all the time so they must be up to something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blumoon69 Posted May 28, 2014 Share Posted May 28, 2014 Tree names.........lol....where i live we cut about 5 to 10 cord a year to heat the house and shop with, if i knew there names, well i think i would still cut them down...lol......my father in law was a sawyer in the woods for 40 years, cut a .lot of them down over the years. never heard him call them by name.lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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