dntfxr Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Hi folks. I'm planning on purchasing a new production anvil in the next few days. Among those I'm considering are the Peddinghaus 275lb and the TFS Smithy Specials in 300 or 400 lbs. these both seem to be in similar price range. I know the forged is considered superior to cast ductile iron, but I'm really wondering in function will the DI be as durable as forged? I've read everything I could on these including the materials being forged 1045 and rc52-54; and cast ductile iron rc52 respectively. Everyone I've spoken with that owns either of these models are very happy with them though. These anvils are the main ones I'm considering because of price, including shipping charges or the lack thereof, and I think they are both if not the best at least pretty good tools. If anyone has used both of these tools and can give me a direct comparison on rebound, durability and such it would be much appreciated. I plan on using this one for the long haul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Forged can be re-built pretty much forever. Don't know about DI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 Thanks Thomas that is a good point. I'm guessing that means welding if it needed it eventually? I have no idea if the DI is even weldable. I had pretty well set my mind on the Peddinghaus but just got to kicking around the idea of a 300 or 400lb beast! Not sure if the weight would even make that much difference for me though.. Until I had to move it lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 Think I'm leaning Peddinghaus. I've been reading a bit and it does seem that welding ductile iron would be much more complicated. It probably won't be a problem in my lifetime, but maybe my heirs will be glad they got a good name anvil, that is repairable. I'm not sure how the TFS is heat treated either, couldn't find much info on it. I emailed them a few weeks back just for general info but never got a reply. The Peddinghaus is induction heated which should give a consistent depth of hardened steel. The Peddinghaus rebound looks great on YouTube, definitely an improvement over what I'm using now. If anyone has any other considerations or experiences I'd love to hear them. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Peddinghaus, in my experience are over priced. I have a TFS and am very disappointed with it. 1. I didn't know that it was ductile iron when I bought it. 2. It was designed by a farrier that apparently knew nothing about European Anvils. The flat horn is undercut and the hardy hole is at the rear end where the metal is undercut making a weak spot. It has a step which most European anvils don't have and the step is not flat like a London pattern. Big Blue is now having a cast steel European anvil specially cast for them and it also has the shelf and upsetting block that my TFS doesn't have. Check with Josh at www.bigbluhammer.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalanton Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I would go for a refflinghaus without any question, I like the smooth transition of horn to face on the south german patterns far better than the peddinghaus shaped horn, just doesn't seem as useable to me. I also really think rathole anvils are incredibly beautiful, but the faces aren't as hard as the refflinghaus or ped. there was a rathole anvil on the tailgating forum in the bay area for 1k. I think that is a screaming deal. rhino anvils are another option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Look into Rathole (Fontanini). Mostly south German pattern made in the USA. As for hardness of face, mine will laugh at a new sharp file, I had to ease the hardie hole with a carbide bit in a die grinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 Wow lots of replies, I really appreciate the help here. I have read most everything I can find on all of the suggested anvils here, some have lots of info, others I couldn't find much. The TFS doesn't seem like quite the deal anymore. WayneCoe in your description of the hardie position being undercut, are you referring to the "blacksmith" models with the square heel, or the "smithy special" models? Btw, I really appreciate your feedback on the Tfs. The Peddinghaus seems to be about the most inexpensive option with mostly good reviews. And it's a name that's been around too, which hopefully still has some value since being bought out by big corporation. Maybe the other brands can be had for less than full msrp too I'm not sure? Keep in mind for me shipping price is a factor too unfortunately. The Bigblu is definitely an interesting option also, I just haven't found very much user feedback on it. I don't have a quote but it should be similar money as the Peddinghaus shipped to my door. The Fontainini is a beautiful design too but a bit pricier than the other two. Seems like mostly good reviews, only read a few complaints of being softer, maybe they just had a bad run who knows. Most seem to love them. Not sure what shipping would be all the way to Louisiana, I would think a bit more than the others but maybe not. And the Papa Rhino seems like an interesting design, kind of euro/London cross with the step. Haven't found a lot of feedback on it. I wish it were a little heavier though. I also read some speculation on the alloy being a ductile iron type too because of carbon content. I don't think they were positive though. It definitely seems like a good possibility given the price. I don't think I've ever heard 1 negative about the Refflinghaus they must be the best out there, but they are quite a bit pricier than the other options. I think if price were no object I'd get one, unfortunately it is. Maybe if it is head and shoulders better than the rest I should just save the extra thousand or so for the #58... A few years back I heard a lot about about Nimbas and they were at the top of my list. I've read a few folks said they seemed a little soft though. Not real high on them anymore. Any other info on these is greatly appreciated folks. Good thing I don't have to decide tonight hahahaa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 My TFS is the 100# double horned model. You won't find much feed back on the Blu anvil because they have just within the past year been selling them. This anvil was designed and is used by full time professional blacksmiths and is similar to the Haberman anvils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Have you looked into the Nimba centurion ? I love mine. The ring is not bad and it moves metal well. Shipping freight was not expensive at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalanton Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 that rathole is still for sale on the tailgating section. shipping fedex would be around 200. I don't think you could possibly go wrong with the peddinghaus if that is in your price range. when I was looking at them I just thought I could get a 200lb refflinghaus for the price of the 275 peddinghaus and I liked the shape much better... and I really don't need that extra weight. Are you sure you do? other than that is the consideration of buying American vs. foreign. From what I have read these two german makers and kohlswas probably have the best hardness and therefor are the top tier of modern anvils. buying American is an important priority, I think the rhinos are a solid anvil, but I do not love the heel being midway between the german and London patterns in width. to my eye the rathole is a stunning anvil, but I am not in love with the horn and I like the side shelf on the opposite side more. nimbas look interesting also. So I think the differences are very subtle, and you really can't go too far wrong. you just have to decide which elements are the most important to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Good Morning, The Nimba anvils stand up well. There are 5 or 6 in the "NWBA Teaching Trailer" and they take a licking from a pile of people. Most new anvils have a slightly soft surface (maybe because they were ground last). The top face 'Work hardens' with use. If you miss and make a dent, take a round nose punch and work the high sides of the dent down, the dent will disappear. MAGIC and simple. If the top face was too hard, it would chip. It is better to err on the safe side, slightly soft. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalanton Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 I agree with erring on the safe side, denting vs. chipping, but I would say why error at all! I have never heard of the refflinghaus anvils being prone to chipping, due to their proprietary alloy. so hard and no chipping. if someone has had problems with their refflinghaus or peddinghaus anvils chipping please chime in.... not to say that nimbas or any of the American anvils are not wonderful tools worth every penny and will still last many lifetimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted April 25, 2014 Author Share Posted April 25, 2014 I can't thank you all enough for all the help. It's got me to thinking about some of the different qualities and features mentioned, and what is most important to me. #1 I'd like it to have enough mass, which most mentioned here will have. I'm currently using a 200lb and it is fine for about 85% of what I do. But sometimes a little more would be nice when I'm using the big hammer. And I have some plans for bigger projects where it will make a big difference I think. #2 I want it to be really flat and smooth for some fine finishing jobs where I have to keep marks to a minimum. Again all these new anvils should have this covered, unless I got crazy with the 8lb sledge and just tore it up. I suppose the harder faced models will be a little more durable in this department though. #3 Features- I'd like an upsetting block but it's not entirely neccesary. I've never used a shelf, but I'm sure it would be nice to have some times. Some have mass in the body like the Nimba, some have more in the base like the Blu appears to. Even the differences in the horn-face transition between the south German style vs Pedd I can see pros to each. I'd probably be happy with any of these to tell the truth once I used it a bit. I've only used post and London pattern anvils so there are lots more to consider with these. #4 is country of origin. Things get a little blurry here, some companies are based here, but are produced overseas. Some are produced here, some are imported. And who knows who owns stock where. All are domestic retailers too. Honestly I just want a good anvil, but whichever way I go probably some coin is going overseas. I'll eliminate the tfs at this point. The larger smithy specials have the block and shelf with the hardie in the right place but the DI doesn't instill confidence, and they never even bothered to respond to my email anyway. The others I'm still considering, probably a slight Peddinghaus lean atm. Does anyone know what the width of the Blu's face is? It's not listed but looks narrow in the pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahoo2 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Does anyone know what the width of the Blu's face is? It's not listed but looks narrow in the pics. 3 3/4" face width Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 The Blu is a long narrow anvil. I looked at them when I was at the shop in March and the face is 4" wide. I measured it and was comparing it to my 500# Habberman which also has a 4" wide face. When I first saw the Habberman I thought, "only a blacksmith could look at an anvil and think that it was sexy." The Blu has a lot the same feel though it is 10" shorter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted April 26, 2014 Author Share Posted April 26, 2014 Thanks guys, I thought it looked long for its weight. I can see how the narrow width could be useful for some jobs. Are there advantages to having more mass in the base as it appears to have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinculo Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 When a i was buying a new anvil several years ago it was between the 250 Fontanini and the 275 Pedd. The Fontanini was less expensive than the pedd @ the time and that was what I got. I think it ended up around $1350 with shipping to NC. Shortly after I got a deal on a slightly used 200kg Old world haberman pattern and would recommend their anvils without hesitation. I saw the Blu anvil at the NCABANA gathering and it looks like a baby haberman. Josh at Big Blu told me they are made from 1045. No idea of hardness but they looked very nice. Here is a little sheet comparing prices at the time around 4 years ago. Anvils worksheet.xlsx.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Davies Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 As someone who bought the Peddinghaus #12 and is very happy with it, if I had it to do over I'd go with Refflinghaus. The transition from face to horn is almost useless on the Peddinghaus (can almost use as a step, but corner mars work easily). Some of the Refflinghaus patterns have everything mine does but with the addition of a feathered horn transition that is actually useful. At the time I bought mine I was determined to get a forged anvil, but I realize now that the inferiority of cast steel was more a thing of the early 20th century. Forged is still stronger than cast and is preferred for many applications, but in modern anvils I don't think there's much to choose between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 I'm going to give these models a bit more thought before I pull the trigger. A few things I have come to realize for my use is that coming from a London pattern, these will all have more length of face than I have now, if you include the tail. I can't see needing anything longer for my use, though it wouldn't hurt but the Refflinghaus is just out of my price range so unless they have a super sale they will have to be eliminated for me. The Blu and Pedd are in my price range, though they are very different from each other. Narrow and long with shelf and skinny bick, vs 25% wider face with no shelf and a thicker bick. Cast vs forged we'll call a wash. I think for my use the wider face and thicker bick may be better. I can see advantages to each, but I can make a smaller hardie bick if I need a narrow one, but occasionally the larger radius horn will be useful. I'd see the Nimba having this usefulness too. The narrow face I also see being useful sometime, I think I'd like the extra width more often though. I always have my little Wilkinson if I need the narrow. The face horn area in the Pedd isn't quite a step but I was thinking might work for a occasional makeshift swedge of sorts. That may be a reach, but I'm used to an abrupt end to the face with the London. I'm gonna think on it a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 I really appreciate everyone's help. I think for me I will be well served by the Peddinghaus. It's the one I've really wanted (dreamed of!) for years, and I just kept coming back to it. It helped that I found a deal on one too. It is lacking a couple features that I may regret down the road but I have a few ideas for hardies that should suffice for those occasions. Again I want to thank everyone who took the time to respond and bring to light some qualities I hadn't thought of before. This is a great site with great folks. The information here is invaluable. Hopefully one day I will be able to give back or pay it forward also. Can't wait to put my hands on this thing! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJergensen Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I hate to mention this *after* you've made a decision, but the TFS double-horned anvils 200# and over have the hardy at the horn and the pritchel at the heel. (The horn is also level with the main face). They do have the same "undercut" / triangular cross-section heel. Given more metal in the larger anvils and the round shape of the pritchel, it's much stronger than the 100#. I used the 100# version and saw several demonstrations done on it a couple of weeks ago. Wayne is right in all his points, but I still think it makes a fine anvil for light work. One of the demonstrators really liked the undercut. It is handy for operations like folding something back on itself. Pound for pound, I'm sure the Ridgid-Peddinghaus anvil is better. $ for $, tho, the TFS anvils look really good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 The answer is simple: to quote 'Big Trouble in Little China'---"Marry them both!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted April 28, 2014 Author Share Posted April 28, 2014 Yes Eric I did notice that, but only made brief mention of it. I think they are a good anvil, everyone I pm'ed and emailed about them only had high praise of the Smithy Specials, set up as you describe -the 2,3, and 400lbers. I think as you say for the weight/$ they are probably the best deal going. But I believe Thomas has it figgered out,-Yes I'll have one of each please! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big-D Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I know one thing, I love my Peddinghaus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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