adamj Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Would 4150 make a good blade if so how would you heat treat properly. we have a lot of end cuts at work that they throw away from 1/2in diameter up to 6in and any thing less than 12in long gets scraped. if it would work I might try to get some and try just didn't want to waste a bunch of time if someone else had worked with it and it didn't work out. also they use some 514 series plate steel for certain applications and I had a co worker that was talking about how tough it was and that he thought it would make a good blade but I don't know the make-up of either of the metals. if anyone knows anything about either of these I would be very appreciative to know. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 50 points is around minimum for an edge. That being said, 4150 will make a lot of nice tooling like chisles,punches,hammers,etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Definitely decent for knives (4150), excellent for axes, hatchets or tomahawks! Many mass produced knives have been made of 4140... which is not quite as good for blades as 4150 IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 If you google 4150 you'll see that the hardest it will probably get is a rockwell 47. Your call as to if this is hard enough for a good knife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 hammers, hatchets, cleavers maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Toughness is not the primary quality for a knife. However is would make excellent trading stock to trade for a knifier alloy at a smithing meet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kehler Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 My book shows an end quench hardness of 58 to 64 HRC at a 1/4" . The 47 HRC shown in the google search is for a 4" round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamj Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 thanks guys if I can find some time I may grab a small piece and see what I can do with it. I will post back with results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 My book shows an end quench hardness of 58 to 64 HRC at a 1/4" . The 47 HRC shown in the google search is for a 4" round. Jim, Does your book specify water or oil quench for that result on 1/4" stock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Kehler Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 That is the results from a Jominy end quench test which is done with water, that said, in practice a steel with as high hardenability as 4150 should be quenched in oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 What I know is that a knife manufacturing company that went bust in the Kansas City area was salvaged by some smiths for numerous large billets of 4140. I have personally made blades of 4140 that I consider GOOD blades (actually very good for their purpose as fighting knives). I would venture to guess that most of us are using blades which are not as good as can be made from 4140 steel and 4150 is IMO superior to the 4140 for most blades. Personally, I think that there is a lot of silliness about rockwell hardness ratings and premium steels for knife making! If you are a top professional knife maker then you needn't be asking any advice here... otherwise you are likely to get good to very good service from a well made knife of 4150 or even 4140! Your wife likely has far lesser knives in your kitchen right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Keep in mind production tolerances. I'm of needs more than 50 pts carbon for me to use for a blade. I also believe that most steels may be higher or lower carbon than you may think from the label. So one batch of 4140 may test higher C than another batch of 4150.I have seen some tech data show how much variation is allowed or required. IG we use some proven methods of shop testing steels it will provide data for that piece of steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Per wot I said above...4140 has a man tolerance range of .28 to .22 carbon content...From wot i believe that puts it less in carbon content than some rr spikes. Site also said the hardest after tempering would be 36 on the rockwell C scale. i recently tested a commercial pair of knives and they had failed horrible in field testing on big game..each of them tested 42 on Rockwell C scale. draw your own conclusions on that. But for my extensive use of knves on game tha4t low of a RC scale upper limit does not work... 4150 specs i found through google showed carbon content of from .48 to .53..seems to low for me for a blade so for kickes i googled a popular choice of some for knves. 5160: It ranged from C of .56 to ..64. If you made a blade from 4150 that was at high end of C content scale..and another one from 5160 from low end of scale they wouild be so close to each other in carbon content only that I am not sure I could tell the difference. through shop testing or field use. And while I was at it i looked up two common knife steels" 1084..one of my favorite has C range of .80 to .93; 1095 is from .90 to 1.04. Againt he lower and upper limits tend to over lap..and again i do not see a lot of difference in the shop or field tesrting of blades from these two steels. And a reminder I am only comparing carbon content in these cases..not the other parts of the formulas that Steve speaks of in the heat treating sections.MAke your own conclusions...your shop your rules. I know wot works for me and some of wot does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'm not a knife maker but the spec sheet for 4140 that is sitting here next to my keyboard for some steel that I make tools out of claims a carbon content of .38 to .43. I don't expect it to get wicked hard but do expect it to harden moderatly and be quite tough. Would expect 4150 to get harder and still be fairly tough. Great for tools, perhaps not for shaving the hair off my chin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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