steel plate anvil?

[ION]

Ok. So I saw a post from a guy on another metalsmithing site and he made his anvil out of a plate of steel and a timber beam ( looked to be about 1/2" x 4" x 12" steel plate on 6" x4" x12" timber)
Now is this plausable for an anvil? I have found steel welded plates (1/4" x 6" x 12 and 1/4" x 12" x 12") that I could stack and bolt together or screw together onto a timber beam. And yes I do mean bolted / screwed. I dontbhave a welder. I dont know how to weld and I dont know anyone that does.

If I were to stack four of these ontop of one another into an inch thick block would this suffice as an anvil for the short term?

[ThomasPowers]

Do they have forklifts in NC?  A broken fork lift tine mounted vertically would give you a lot more steel under the hammer without energy sapping interfaces.

[ION]

Probably shouldve mentioned that I found the steel at lowes. And Idk where id find that. Plus it sounds heavier than 50 pounds

[VaughnT]

The physics of an anvil work because it's a solid mass, and the majority of the mass is directly under the hammer's impact zone.  Laminating plates will work because the top plate is harder than the hot iron you're beating against it, but the benefit of the other plates beneath it are somewhat limited because they are not joined solidly.  Even bolted, there is slippage between the layers.  

 

All that to say, it will certainly work for an anvil.  So will a granite block.  However, there are other sources for solid masses that you should look into before going through all the work to drill a bunch of holes.  As Thomas mentioned, a fork lift tine makes a great anvil and comes rather "ready made".  A large sledge-hammer head is a doozy of an anvil.  Axles from large vehicles, like dozers and trains, are awesome.

[ION]

So using plates doesnt give an even dispersion of energy. So its not so much the steel but the integrity of the steel that would be in question.

Im also trying to be ergonomic for now. I dont have a lot of space to work with. And im doing cold work smithing for now. And I dont have anything that can lift anything over 50 or 60 pounds from one spot to another. Much less 150 to 200 pounds.

Ps. My workshop is pretty much my room in my corner where my computer is. :(

[Black Frog]

Go visit you local junkyard or salvage yard and find something more suitable.

You'd be better off than spending the time/effort on laminating plates to a piece of timber.

[ThomasPowers]

Well lets see you could google for Forklift service and repair and North Carolina if you don't know where to look.  Then ask around if anyone near you in NC has a phone and start calling and explaining what you are trying to do.

 

 

This seems to heading towards the "I want to do it the more expensive, less effective way"

 

Why the 50# limit?  When you go small then a 20# sledge hammer head starts looking like a possibility....

 

In 1900 North Carolina had nearly a million more people in it than New Mexico did yet I can find stuff out here!  Did you ask all your kinfolk?  Neighbors? People at Church if you attend.  Machine shops, scrapyards, junkyards, ...

 

Edited after reading the updates done while typing: Now wouldn't have made a lot more sense to include all that other information in your original question instead of asking for help and then wasting a lot of people's time when they try to help you?

 

SO TELL US WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO and the limits and constraints on your situation; including physical ones.  I'm 57, overweight and a diabetic with a sedentary job; but I still consider moving my 90-110# anvils light work and I expect to move my 165# anvil by myself tomorrow.

[VaughnT]

Primitive cultures around the world did great works with very "crude" equipment.  If you can get on the internet, you can research how they did it and duplicate that.  A sledge-hammer anvil is a great tool and still in use today for a lot of shops (including mine).  I really like the domed face for a lot of applications.

[ION]

Ill look around scrap yards.

And this is more of a "find a decently effective method for a decent price so I can find an ergonomic style as to not upset my parents off with having a hunk of steel in their midst." If that and space werent an issue id have already gotten something from a nunkyard if good size.
Looking after the wellbeing of others is a pain

I am not trying to make any excuses im letting you guys kno the plight with I have to deal and how im trying to be practical wothout overstepping bounds in my household.

:/

[Chinobi]

that actually sounds very similar to my shop :) except I can lift my 100lb anvil myself (that one stays in the garage though) I just brought my 50 lb cast iron ASO inside to do some non-ferrous cold work a few weeks ago, no mount, just seated on the floor.  were I to be looking for an impromptu anvil from lowes I would get one of their 10lb sledges with the 36" handle for 32$, which is probably not a lot more than you would pay for 4 of those plates (cant find them online to price out) plus you get 3 feet of handle stock to work with in the future! (the bolts you would need are not exactly cheap either)  mount the head into a chunk of timber post or whatever you can get ahold of so it fits tightly but can still be rotated and flipped around.

 

i believe you are also confusing dispersion with dissipation.  the problem is not how the energy is spread across the workpiece from the anvil, but how much energy is lost due to the vibration and movement between the layers of the plate.  all that energy (any buzz you hear or feel) is energy that could have been transmitted into the work but was instead wasted through the vibration of the plates.  the quality of that weld steel is pretty bad too, you will be able to ding it with errant hammer strikes pretty easily.

 

because a sledge head is octagonal you can readily grind in multiple diameters of fuller on each corner, giving you a lot of flexibility when you need to bend or notch projects.  as Vaughn says a domed head can be very useful too, grind a dome on one side and leave the other flat so you can just flip it over and change your anvil face on the fly.

 

don't forget that lowes also uses forklifts, so their manager might be able to direct you to whoever holds their maintenance contract.

[VaughnT]

If you think the family's going to be happy with you hammering away in a bedroom..... ya might want to think about plan b.  

 

A portable anvil is easy to come by, but you need to have a reasonable work space, too.  Best thing I've ever done was to utilize the local park where they had barbeque pits that I could use for a forge.  A bag of charcoal and some tools..... it made for a good day.  Plan the work so you get all the forging done.  You can file and drill at home.

[ION]

U said a ten # sledgehammer. Do they just sell the heads? Or best bet to get a sledge and leave the handle on?

Plates were 9.50 a piece btw

[ThomasPowers]

What type of cold work you doing?  For example:  Armour making doesn't require a london pattern anvil, more stakes and dishing forms

 

Most stores only sell complete sledgehammers.  For expensive prices.  I bought my 20# sledge at a local fleamarket without a handle for US$7

 

When I ;ived in the inner city of Columbus OH I couldn't leave *anything* outside so I had to carry it from the basement every time I worked.  5 gallon plastic buckets, balanced loads of hammer and tongs and tooling, save for the 91# anvil that was carried up out of the basement each and every time.  I worked under a tree in the back yard...

[ION]

Armor smithing. Maille for right now. Getting prepped for future projects

[Chinobi]

9.50 each!? walk away dude, walk away :)

 

head over to the lowes website and you can see the items before you even get to the store. item # 333830 is a Kobalt 10 pound sledge with a 36" handle for $32, cheaper than 4 of the plates alone.  IDK if lowes sells just heads (I doubt it) but if you cut off the handle and just use the head now you just got a side order of 3(plus or minus depending on how long you cut them) brand new hammer handles for regular hand hammers, or top tools, or whatever might need a handle.

 

edit: you will have to forgive the ignorance, I am uninvolved with armorsmithing, but isn't mail pretty much only dependent on wire cutters and round nose pliers?  maybe some kind of mandrel to true things up or a rod to wind wire around?  I understand riveted mail would require an anvil like object, but just about anything could work for that because you only need such a small face right?

[ION]

Would ten or 20# work best?

[Chinobi]

lowes doesn't carry bigger than a 10, if you can source a 20 from wherever else you will not likely regret the extra mass, I just wouldn't buy one new because those are going to be $$$

[ION]

For riveting I need a striking surface. I made a mandrel already :)

Ok so 10 it is

[rockstar.esq]

Just a thought but if you're going to use a sledge as an anvil - you might wanna leave the handle on.  Some time down the road you may end up with a full on shop and be looking for a sledge for your striker to use. Whenever you get the choice, it's always better to retain full utility with your tools.

[ION]

True. I was gonna shorten it. But all the inventory is fiberglass polymer handles

[VaughnT]

Why buy new when there are yard sales, flea markets and craigslist deals all around you?

[Frosty]

Are you really going to be making maille? If so you don't need an anvil at all, not even if you're morticing the rings.

 

Yard and garage sales are the shopping malls of blacksmiths, there's just no telling what juicy find is waiting you. Sledge hammers and heads are common, rally common. And don't set your sights on one thing, you never know what's out there till you look. I found a 22lb. masonry sledge head some years ago. I didn't know what it really was but it sure looked like a BIG straight pein sledge, so that's what it is. It sure doesn't need to be a hammer, it needs to be hard and solid so watch for an old axle, the bolt flange is REALLY handy for small work. Too long? Got a hack saw? NO!?! You really REALLY need one. Seriously, it's about an hour's easy work to cut a 2+ truck axle with a hack saw, I've done just that and I MEAN easy.

 

Bolting a stack of plates for an anvil will really annoy anybody downstairs but it won't win you friends anywhere unless it's a really big house. Using a solid anvil will make clinky  tinky sounds a stack of plates, no matter how tightly bolted will be making clanky sounds and being larger in area will resonate the air much more effectively. . . Louder.

 

Still, as much as you've told us about what you want to do I'd have to guess a couple pair of round nose, needle nose pliers and good dikes is what you really need. My main tool making maille was an old tool box lid I put a piece of brazing rod across at the top so I could link rings easily. All the rest I did by winding the stock on a 1/4" mandrel, then cutting and weaving them together. Sure it was only lap joints but I never did need armor and it's pretty.

 

Try forgetting the fancy language and just tell us what you do and the limitations Seriously, if you're going to use words like "ergonomic" you should use them correctly. Not annoying the landlord has nothing to do with ergonomics, economics yes, you don't want to pay for your own place yet so THAT is a real factor.

 

Seriously, we're blacksmiths, not English teachers grading your paper, just talk to us, there's enough specialized craft jargon  already.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ironsmith]

this reminds me when i was in the SCA  20 years ago... had no skill and little resources. i didn't do much with mail but a lot with leather and plate.

what i started with was a dishing stump and a ball peen hammer. then graduated to a piece of I beam for riveting on.

 

good luck in your endeavor and stay sensible/safe!

 

have fun!

[ION]

Why buy new when there are yard sales, flea markets and craigslist deals all around you?

Bought New cause I was at Lowes already.  So it was spur of the moment.  I didnt mind getting it for the short term until I can actually find time to go to the flea market by NC State, when I am not working. (I work weekends)

Craigslist Ive done for other things but always found my luck being dry due to I got scammed out of a couple items and I have very seldom met a nice person on there.

 

 

Try forgetting the fancy language and just tell us what you do and the limitations Seriously, if you're going to use words like "ergonomic" you should use them correctly. Not annoying the landlord has nothing to do with ergonomics, economics yes, you don't want to pay for your own place yet so THAT is a real factor.

 

Seriously, we're blacksmiths, not English teachers grading your paper, just talk to us, there's enough specialized craft jargon  already.

 

OK. So i feel it was up to this point that I found your reply constructive.  And from here on i felt a bit of a sting.  So I will act accordingly.

1.  Fancy Language:  I used the term ERGONOMIC for a reason.  I am slightly educated even if my sentence structuring may be a bit off, but I do know what this word means.  I used it in context of my workspace in conjunction with my current living status.  So perhaps I should have been a bit more specific.  

2.  Ergonomic Setup:  My workspace right now is a 3 x 4' corner of my room next to my computer and my amp, where I am currently weaving Chain.  While this is enough space for this project in particular, I do not find it very Good for the long term.  Now with regards to my outside space, That is a small patch of grass surrounded by a fence that I cannot burn anything in a forge, I cant move heavy objects (ie Anvil Material) to and from not to mention the fact that this is an "old Folks" neihborhood roughly 10 miles from the inner city, so I dont have a lot of options to work with.  Plus I am a college student (comm to be more specific) so whatever money I do have, I am continuously using for school and when its not for school its for work, and when its not for work its for trying to find something I can do and be good at.  I do not live alone because I financially cannot.  Which segways into the next point.

3. Economic Standing:  The landlord(s) are not the issue. Its the Homeowners association which states that me and my  family cant have anything out on our lawn that would be "unseemly" to the integrity of their neighborhood.  They wont even let us keep bikes outside of the fence.  Now we are moving very soon, but still not sure where, but odds are i probably wont get much of an upgrade to space or privacy as I like to hope.  

4.  What do I want to accomplish?  Well I want to learn overall.  Ive stated above my limitations.  Now If I have missed anything, please let me know so I may provide more specificity and keep my weird sounding "jargon" out of it.  

 

 

this reminds me when i was in the SCA  20 years ago... had no skill and little resources. i didn't do much with mail but a lot with leather and plate.

what i started with was a dishing stump and a ball peen hammer. then graduated to a piece of I beam for riveting on.

 

good luck in your endeavor and stay sensible/safe!

 

have fun!

 

And thank you and I shall try :)

[norrin_radd]

If the community college you go to has any programs that deal with welding/machinist/hvac/small engine or anything even remotely resembles one of those trades it would probably be worth your while to lurk around there or talk to one of the instructors there may be something you could use lying around and possibly get for free.

 

I'm pretty new to blacksmithing too but that's my 2 cents, good luck