Do you do models first?

[Keganthewhale]

So when you have an idea and you sketch it out, what is your process from there? Do you sketch, then sketch again to give it some sort of scale and dimension? Do you make a miniature before goin full size? If you do a miniature what materials do you use so it's easily manipulated if you don't like how it looks in 3d?
I'm just curious about the processes of people who are wiser than myself, it'd be a shame to have an idea, and waste time and material, and money on something that doesn't come out how you see it in your head.

[DSW]

I've done full scale mockups of portions of projects in the past. Some times it's so the customer can look at things and decide if that's what they want.  Other times it's so I can work out proportions or build order, or come up with fab techniques that can stream line the work.

 

Depends a lot on  how much you do certain things. A friend of mine who does a lot of gate and rail work has a bunch of pieces set aside for mockups. He can quickly lay them all out to show customers different ideas on his big fab bench, and if they like them, he can go ahead and fab up the  prototype or go into production depending on the clients choices.

[SmoothBore]

AutoCAD is my "go to" when I want to play around with angles, spacial orientation and dimensional relationships.

 

The process of drawing an object, to precise scale, really helps me visualize the end result, ... and formulate the correct sequence of steps.

 

 

 

 

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[anvil]

my process:

1: mental concept

2: perspective sketch

3: scale dimensional drawing

4:full size drawing on table

5: make full size sample of detail

6: if I have repeated scrolls, I make s test piece and fit it to my full scale drawing to please my eye, not to matvh the drawing, then make all scrolls to match this pattern piece (not jig)

that's it

[Anachronist58]

I am strictly an amateur at this,

 

Yesterday, I made my daughter a heart-shaped garden ornament for her birthday.

I made a chalk drawing on my big steel work table.  after several tries and partial redraws, I got it to look 'just right'.

 

I then laid a piece of heavy string (works like a 'tape' measure) on the pattern, so that I could transfer the lengths of the curved and angled features onto the straight 1/4" thick x 24" long squared bar that would become the ornament. 

 

It really helped, since once things get hot, the steel has its own ideas, and I could lay the hot work directly against the drawing to keep things going the right direction.

 

Mark Aspery's Grille Project video explains one type of layout process very well, I think,

[Eddie Mullins]

I have used some tie wire to free form scrolls or other small items for a visual model.

[ThomasPowers]

I once was working with a lady on a pot rack and I wasn't sure we were using the same words to mean the same things---so I made a miniature that I could bring in and show her. As it was a 'throw away piece" I used a very rought pitted piece of scrap from an old barn yard....She *loved* it and wanted the compleated one to look just like it---including having been buried in manure for 50 years!

 

Now If I do a miniature I use "off the rack" stock and *then* we can discuss "finish"

[Chinobi]

I wont deign to claim any kind of mastery of anything, but preliminary design is usually brainstorming on the drive too or from work, from there a rough sketch, followed by a reduced scale sketch on graph paper and/or a CAD draft.  because I am still learning the craft I often draw things out as a series of work flow steps to determine the best route to actual go about forging it and flush out any trouble spots on paper before I get to iron.  at some point I might also break out a lump of fimo/sculpty type plasticene and mock forge through the steps to help visualize everything and approximate the final dimensions.  sometimes everything looks good on paper but when you end up holding the finished product in your hand it feels like its totally off scale from what you expected :)

[Roy Ubu]

Good idea to at least draw. It feels better to me than computer generated because moving hand on paper helps ideas develop better. May have to do with how slowly I work a cad program. Clay is good too, but mainly when it models a small part of the piece I haven't done before or have done too few times to be absolutely comfortable. 

All of the thinking, drawing, figuring best order of process, has never resulted in a finished piece that is exactly the embodiment of my planning. If I stumble on an improvement as I go, I'm not handcuffed to what I've generated on paper. What happens equally often is that the execution is a little lacking. It's a hand made thing. It's nice to see the tracks. They're an important part of the story.

[SoCal Dave]

I have found that when I draw the project, a rough draft,  it gives me some of the dimensions I hadn't considered.  This also happens when I'm rough cutting some of the pieces and realize that a different measurement works better, or looks better than the drawing.  

[steveguilmette]

I find myself much more productive if I have a plan first.  Typically I'll draw something in chalk on the table or on the floor.  I usually will deviate to accommodate happy accidents or design changes along the way.

 

I'm a mechanical engineer for a living so I'm often tempted to make CAD models first but when I have it feels like a waste of time.  It's fairly complicated to model even simple forgings and the details I'm after (mainly what material amount to start with) don't read well from CAD, as we're redistributing metal, not removing or adding (for the most part).

 

That said, scrolls and hooks I will typically mock up from aluminum armature wire ahead of time to figure out how long of a piece I will need.  It bends cold (until it work hardens) and unbends just as easily.  I highly recommend this.  I will use about 24" of it a month, just bending and re-bending the same pieces.

 

Steve

[Chinobi]

for me there is a balance (and often back and forth) between CAD and hand, I can draw curves and concepts out much faster by hand than on the computer because I don't get hung up on eyeballing radii and getting curve proportions exactly right.  on paper its much easier to just freehand it and let the curves fall where they may.  but when I need to keep myself honest about dimensions and making sure that im not going to end up with conflicting elements I reach for the mouse :)  I also have a bunch of reclaimed copper electrical wire at hand that I have used to mock things up when it helps to get a good sense of the volume of the object, without needing to put a lot of time into a detailed isometric drawing, or a 3d model on the computer and the size exceeds the lump of clay at hand!

 

to me the most important thing is making sure that the drawing is as close to scale as possible.  if your proportions are off on paper its going to result in a lot more on the spot compromises as you forge it out, unless the drawing was very conceptual and just used as a springboard.  as dave says, scale drawings are also highly useful for figuring out dimensions that you didn't initially calculate without needing to do the math again, just grab your scale and measure it out.

[Stephen Olivo]

Drawing, sometimes work in clay, forging, then forging some more,  forging till I get all the working parts right,  Then lots of bench work.

[HWooldridge]

I go straight to sketching in chalk on my big steel layout table to full scale size. If I need multiple elements, such as so many identical scrolls (or whatever) then I estimate the amount of material and make one piece, adjusting as necessary to match the design. After that, it becomes a production job to replicate the pieces prior to assembly. When making window grilles or fireplace screens or anything that has to fit an opening, I always try to build a frame and attach all the elements inside the borders. If that is not possible in the finished installation, I will usually build a frame to act as a fixture and assemble the pieces inside.

[anvil]

hope this isn't a dp

when I do scrolls I lay them out full size on my table within their framework.
'I measure with electrical wire(plastic coated) the length of the scroll to the taper,upset,branch what have you.

complex scrolls get broken down to their component parts.

then I do the math on the taper/upset and all other parts.

then forge and scroll my testpiece, and fit it to the chalk drawing on the table.

it is as eady to be right on as it is to be close enough, and this works for me.

I have made clay mockups in the past, for a short time. for me, I would rather work with the iron. nothing can be as close to real as the real stuff. so it wasn't worth my time

others do well with clay or softer materials.

[Willis]

For small projects, I use modeling clay. If you start your clay in the same shape as the stock you will be using, and then form it. You can see an almost step by step process.