Avadon Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I'm foaming Closed Cell spray foam in my 24'x30' shop this wednesday and want to have the wall sheeting ready to cover the walls as soon as I'm able. That way I can get the surface mounted panel back in. I called the county just to see what the fire code is. They say 1/2" - (type x) gypsum is min code. Since I'm using this shop both as a smithy and minimally as a woodshop for the next year (until later it will be just a woodshop) I hadn't intended on sheeting with drywall. I guess with an attached building it's supposed to be drywall, regardless of how the building is attached. Even though I have a mudroom (10'x12') between house and shop that is drywall, the code says any building attached (even through other buildings) to a home must have drywall coverings. I just don't really know if I want to bother, honestly. Drywall in a smith is a curse, it gets busted, dinged, holes right through it, etc. Everyone here has seen that. My initial idea was 1/2" ply over the ceiling and two layers of 5/8's ply sandwiched with green glue for the walls (STC reasons). It seems like two layers of 5/8's ply would have quite a long burn time for a fire rating, but maybe not? Other thought I had was: 5/8's ply Green Glue 5/8's drywall 1/8'th ply vaneer or some other wood covering. Code said that drywall has to be the top layer, but clearly you see houses all the time that have wood on the walls, either T&G pine, cedar, or other type of coverings. And obviously all that is flammable. Having the 5/8's gypsum in there might crush between layers if I hang all my heavy objects on the wall. Even the 1/8th vaneer might also not really hold up very well either to heavy stuff hanging on the wall. Hence why my initial plan was the two layers of 5/8's ply. Clearly this is an annoying dilemma. I'm not having any inspections so it's not like someones coming to red flag me. I like the idea of safety, but if a safety measure ruins the use of the building then clearly that won't work. I also thought about two 5/8's ply sheets with steel or even stainless on the walls. Though when it comes to hanging anything on the walls that means drilling metal and you can't easily patch it if you move something from one place to another. The electrical is all surface mounted, nothing in the walls and I have numerous expensive smoke alarms w/ co detection as well as a co detector itself. Mud room also has smoke alarms. If I didn't have all my steel, tools and smithing stuff in there I wouldn't mind sheetrock at all. I just find it really hard to give into sheet rock knowing how awful it is in this circumstance. Penny for all your thoughts.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Many times regular building codes were never written with things like this in mind. Also most of the fire marshals and building inspectors I've dealt with over the years aren't very imaginative. If it's not something that's easy to look up, then it's not possible or not "code". They only know the basic residential codes, or those possibly for light commercial spaces and not "odd" codes for things like heavy timber or other "nonstandard" building and framing designs. Problem with wood walls may be due to the joints more than the material itself, since I know they do make fire rated plywood. I know cement board is acceptable for use on fire rated walls, but only if the joints are taped and mudded. There are probably several ways you could work around this if you really wanted to. Some spray foams also listed as fire resistant and have protective fire ratings ( typically for protecting steel ). I'm pretty sure there is a fire rated design using plywood. The problem would be locating the associated documentation to go with it. Plywood under drywall is acceptable as a fire rated construction. I believe anything "over" the drywall is usually considered a "wall covering" and thus is probably ignored as far as the codes are concerned. They also make impact resistant drywall that is fire rated for use in schools and so on. I'm not sure if the cost and hassle of hunting for it is worth the bother however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Here in NJ, when you do two layers of 5/8" fire rated sheet rock, both layers have to be taped and spackled. My neighbor found out the hard way, and had to remove the second layer, spackle the first layer, then reinstall new sheet rock for the second layer. I would think that plywood over sheet rock would make an acceptable wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I have no knowledge about your building codes as ours are based on the European one's. However a few years ago I was developing some residential tower blocks and we were experimenting with differing types of drywall, on one setup we played with two sheets of board(in our case 2 x 15mm 'x' board ) with a 0.9mm(really thin) of galv. Sheet sandweged in between. Man you could take a hammer to it and struggle to pierce it. I also was shown(I didn't believe it at first ) but if you put thin MDF flat on a surface it is incredibly difficult to set fire to even with a blowtorch. Plywood seems to catch fire layer by layer but the MDF(which I hate btw.) seems to ''smolder and then selfextinguish: this is from observation and not from some scientific data. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 These fire codes are and have been a problem for years. Two layers of 5/8 fire rated "sheetrock" both layers tapped and mudded with no joints within ?? inches of each other has been the standard for walls between living areas and garages/workshops for many years. I'm sure things have gotten tighter since I got out of the business. Now in my area residential buildings are not inspected unless you are going to rent them but should you build it "your way" and it doesn't meet acceptable or usual code the insurance inspectors can refuse to insure or if a loss happens they can refuse payment or reduce payments. They always win. Granted sheetrock doesn't work or look all that great in a blacksmith shop but because you are adding onto where you and your family sleeps you might think hard on this. I was in this position recently and decided to take a different route and built a separate building away from all the others for the shop. I was a Fire Chief and firefighter for nearly 30 yrs. and dealt with building inspectors, insurance Inspectors, adjusters and fire investigators, one of the first things looked at if a fire started in an attached garage or shop was the separation walls. What were they and did they hold up. Not an expert but slightly experienced. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 They do make high impact drywall that is more durable than regular drywall http://www.nationalgypsum.com/resources/faqs/xp.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petere76 Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 In residential codes, they treat the overhead differently than the vertical bulkheads. Assuming that the upper portion of the space is exposed to a greater heat in a fire. As a suggestion, use the (code) recommended thickness of Sheetrock on the walls and overhead. To protect the walls close to the action, sheath the areas with galvanized roofing steel. The sparks and other debris just bounce off. We use this design in our shop and it works great. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 If you really dig deep into the code you may find that you only need the fire shield on the ceiling and the wall against the home. As mentioned by several others though, the code in most parts calls for 5/8" sheetrock. (it is the thickness that makes it firecode; 1 hour burn through time per thickness) and as noted 2 layers are required taped and mudded and spaced. Since your objection to sheetrock seem to revolve mostly around your temporary use as a metal shop, put it up, then patch any holes you accidentally make when you change to a wood shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Foam is nasty stuf when in burns, 1/2 drywall is cheap, just do it, then either cover the botom half with tin or ply. Wood shops and smithies are fire hazards on a good day, combined more so. I would hate for you to loose your home or a loved one due to a bit of good old American stubbornness. Our shop is drywalled, and then we went with roofing tin over that, stops sparks and flying things, and most importantly my own clumsiness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I wouldn't attach my metal shop to my house if you paid me. Yikes. If you are after fire rated sheetrock walls that will hold up better, sheath the inside of the studs in plywood first, then top with rock. This will stiffen the rock to the point that you will have a hard time punching thru it accidentally thou it will still gouge. Keep a bucket of mud and a quart of paint on hand if you are worried about what the walls in your shop look like. Plywood under the rock also allows you to hang shelves, attach workbenches, and mount whatever you want to the walls wherever you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 They do make high impact drywall that is more durable than regular drywall http://www.nationalgypsum.com/resources/faqs/xp.htm This looks like good stuff, but I'm guessing no one has it locally. From a google search it doesn't appear to be at the big box home improvement stores (lowes/depot) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 OSB is less expensive than ply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 This looks like good stuff, but I'm guessing no one has it locally. From a google search it doesn't appear to be at the big box home improvement stores (lowes/depot) Best bet if you want to buy some would be to look more towards commercial sheet rock suppliers rather than home stores. I'm talking about the places that pro's would go to if they were going to rock an office building, school, apartment building etc. Look under commercial building supplies. Down side is places like this many times don't really want to deal with retail customers. If you need 30 sheets, you might not have any issues. Trying to buy just 2 sheets they might tell you to go take a hike unless you are a regular customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuge Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 A organic farmer neighbor of mine just built a big barn with an attached apartment and when "they" learned he was going to be washing lettuce on a large scale he was required to put up a firewall of 5 layers of 5/8 drywall, taped and mudded, inspected each layer. You should see the nooks they had to fill. Non sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 I wouldn't attach my metal shop to my house if you paid me. Yikes. If you are after fire rated sheetrock walls that will hold up better, sheath the inside of the studs in plywood first, then top with rock. This will stiffen the rock to the point that you will have a hard time punching thru it accidentally thou it will still gouge. Keep a bucket of mud and a quart of paint on hand if you are worried about what the walls in your shop look like. Plywood under the rock also allows you to hang shelves, attach workbenches, and mount whatever you want to the walls wherever you want. If you live in California you may have a good point. If you live in Alaska I don't think you'd want to walk constantly to your shop through -20dgs weather. Here in Central oregon it's pretty much the same thing. It's a place of extremes, cold and hot and not much in between. The mud room, though small, really allows the convenience of not having to go outside. It also acts as a very impressive firebreak. You can have shop walls that are fire rated, than both mud room walls are heavily fire rated. The chance of your shop catching your house on fire are probably less than just a 10' gap of air simply due to the imensity of all those fire proof materials. I've used attached and unattached shops and the attached shops are always nicer. If one is really concerned with fire issues, make the mud room longer between the shop and the house. You reduce risk by doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Best bet if you want to buy some would be to look more towards commercial sheet rock suppliers rather than home stores. I'm talking about the places that pro's would go to if they were going to rock an office building, school, apartment building etc. Look under commercial building supplies. Down side is places like this many times don't really want to deal with retail customers. If you need 30 sheets, you might not have any issues. Trying to buy just 2 sheets they might tell you to go take a hike unless you are a regular customer. That's what I'm trying to figure out where I might get that in central oregon. Hmm.. may have to phone book/ask/search to figure this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 A organic farmer neighbor of mine just built a big barn with an attached apartment and when "they" learned he was going to be washing lettuce on a large scale he was required to put up a firewall of 5 layers of 5/8 drywall, taped and mudded, inspected each layer. You should see the nooks they had to fill. Non sense. 5 layers? I've never heard of such a thing. Min code here for an attached building is 1/2" type x gypsum. I beleive it's only 5/8's for a living space overhead. 5 layers of drywall gives you what 5 hrs of burn time. lol Just in case you wanted to take a nap through the fire, wake up and then put it out? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 After much thought I'm leaning towards using 1-1/8'th T&G Ply sheeting. It's not cheap (40$ a sheet) but you can avoid seams (a plus for fire rating) and then covering this with 5/8's gypsum (taping+mudding every layer) and gypsum on the ceiling. This way I get lots of mass from the ply (improves my STC rating) and also a fire rating from the gypsum. I'm going to use green glue in between the ply and gypsum and if I do a second layer of 5/8's gypsum I'll use green glue in between that too. This should make a very solid wall. From there if I just have to have wooden looking walls I'll just put up a vaneer. Not sure about that. I did find this stuff though http://www.homedepot.com/p/ForceField-FireGuard-E-84-5-gal-Intumescent-Primer-FFGD-E84-g05/203582028 it is amazing. Gives virtually anything you put it on a 2hr burn rating. They've tested this stuff and you can see it on youtube too, and they cover sheds with it and try to burn them down and it will just not burn. When the paint gets hot it encapsulates the wood/ply/osb/etc and makes it fire resistant. Pretty neat stuff, especailly for some who already have wood walls and want to add fire protection without going the drywall route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Wow, I wish I could get 1 1/8" ply for that price around here. It costs me almost that much for 3/4" T&G plywood underlayment. You don't even want to know what really nice plywood runs... One of the advantages of living in the Pacific North West I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Wow, I wish I could get 1 1/8" ply for that price around here. It costs me almost that much for 3/4" T&G plywood underlayment. You don't even want to know what really nice plywood runs... One of the advantages of living in the Pacific North West I guess. I would imagine they'd have the same thing at the home depot near you? No? Because that's where I found it.http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100056755# I can't quite remember but I think it said on the bundle (where HD was getting it from) company name and it was out of Idaho. I would think their prices would be the same nation wide. I haven't even checked at my Parr Lumber ( our real lumber yard) to see if they can beat that price. I'm kinda weird with wood and sheeting. I like to only pick out the straightest and best wood and plywood. That probably irks them, but I'm kinda OCD that way. lol Probably because I hate untwisting boards with screws and I'm finnicky about things being very square and flush when framing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Nope I'm afraid not. I get " Not available at your current localized store" or "Item is not sold at your local store. Please choose an alternate pickup store.", so it won't even let me order it and have it shipped in if I wanted. None of the 10 locations I try around me have it, and neither do any of the 6 or 8 NJ stores I some times frequent. Home Depot's stuff can vary by "district". I'm actually located really close to 3 different Districts for them. What is sold at one store may or may not be sold at another which can be a real pain some times. My local store for example doesn't stock the 32" version of a specific door one of my customers wanted. However the Depot down at the Jersey shore near their shore house does. Probably because the Craftsman style design of the door sells better there than it does in my area. I'm sure I could locate some if I wanted to. 1 1/8" T&G is fairly standard for light commercial wood framed construction. One of my suplpiers can get me individual sheets of specialty plywood if I need it no problem. It would cost a fortune around here though. Actually I probably have access to even "better" plywood if I wanted. The walls of my storage room at the "shop" are made of 3/4" high density overlay plywood (HDO) typically used for heavy concrete forms. I know the 1/2" HDO form ply we get is 13+ ply marine grade with a dead smooth HDO finish. It weighs about as much as 3/4" does and it's stronger than 3/4" sheathing. A 1/2" 8' sheet supported on the ends will support my 250 lb weight if I stand in the center. The 3/4" stuff will support 2 good sized guys no problem. I can actually get the form ply cheaper than I can buy standard marine grade plywood local. a 1/2" sheet of AB marine plywood will run me close to $75-100 depending on where I buy it. 1/2 HDO formply ran me about $55 a sheet when I bout some a few months back for a job that I needed water proof plywood. The only reason the walls of the store room are 3/4" is A: because we got a bunch of it free when a company we knew stripped and reply'd all their 1/2" and 3/4" forms, and B: the 3/4" gives more bite for the screws that are holding up the shelves in case we needed to screw in between the studs for some reason. We used the 1/2" on the main shop walls and roof. Down side of HDO besides the weight is that it's super hard. It's close to impossible to hand drive nails thru it because the surface is so hard. I've even had the stuff bend nails from the nailgun. Up side is it's almost completely impervious to water and weather. I've got a sheet I've been using as an outdoor work table for the last year and it doesn't show any sign of deterioration at all from the exposure. I do like the link to the fireproofing paint however. I've seen before and knew it existed, but didn't know Depot carried it. I'll have to keep that in the back of my mind as an option in case I have a need for it some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted January 6, 2014 Author Share Posted January 6, 2014 I wonder what the denses Nope I'm afraid not. I get " Not available at your current localized store" or "Item is not sold at your local store. Please choose an alternate pickup store.", so it won't even let me order it and have it shipped in if I wanted. None of the 10 locations I try around me have it, and neither do any of the 6 or 8 NJ stores I some times frequent. Home Depot's stuff can vary by "district". I'm actually located really close to 3 different Districts for them. What is sold at one store may or may not be sold at another which can be a real pain some times. My local store for example doesn't stock the 32" version of a specific door one of my customers wanted. However the Depot down at the Jersey shore near their shore house does. Probably because the Craftsman style design of the door sells better there than it does in my area. I'm sure I could locate some if I wanted to. 1 1/8" T&G is fairly standard for light commercial wood framed construction. One of my suplpiers can get me individual sheets of specialty plywood if I need it no problem. It would cost a fortune around here though. Actually I probably have access to even "better" plywood if I wanted. The walls of my storage room at the "shop" are made of 3/4" high density overlay plywood (HDO) typically used for heavy concrete forms. I know the 1/2" HDO form ply we get is 13+ ply marine grade with a dead smooth HDO finish. It weighs about as much as 3/4" does and it's stronger than 3/4" sheathing. A 1/2" 8' sheet supported on the ends will support my 250 lb weight if I stand in the center. The 3/4" stuff will support 2 good sized guys no problem. I can actually get the form ply cheaper than I can buy standard marine grade plywood local. a 1/2" sheet of AB marine plywood will run me close to $75-100 depending on where I buy it. 1/2 HDO formply ran me about $55 a sheet when I bout some a few months back for a job that I needed water proof plywood. The only reason the walls of the store room are 3/4" is A: because we got a bunch of it free when a company we knew stripped and reply'd all their 1/2" and 3/4" forms, and B: the 3/4" gives more bite for the screws that are holding up the shelves in case we needed to screw in between the studs for some reason. We used the 1/2" on the main shop walls and roof. Down side of HDO besides the weight is that it's super hard. It's close to impossible to hand drive nails thru it because the surface is so hard. I've even had the stuff bend nails from the nailgun. Up side is it's almost completely impervious to water and weather. I've got a sheet I've been using as an outdoor work table for the last year and it doesn't show any sign of deterioration at all from the exposure. I do like the link to the fireproofing paint however. I've seen before and knew it existed, but didn't know Depot carried it. I'll have to keep that in the back of my mind as an option in case I have a need for it some time. I wonder what the densest ply material I can get my hands on in central oregon is and is it denser than the 1-1/8'th T&G. I'm try to avoid having to do two sheets of ply and two sheets of drywall. The two sheets of drywall is unavoidable but if I can get away with one really thick sheet of ply I think that would be great. http://www.plywoodcompany.com/application/home/itemdetails.aspx?categoryid=155&itemid=444 $65 a sheet for the 3/4" I might call them and ask if the HDO is more dense/better STC than 1 1-8 T&G. I'm guessing probably not as it's got another 1/4" or more actual dimension on it. The 1-1/8'th T&G didn't feel anywhere near as heavy as I actually thought it would. Normally that ply is used for subfloors.. that's why I'm amazed your depot's don't carry it. I have a trailer but I can only take on about 600-1000lb so driving far to get it and coming back with a heavy load isn't really possible. I could blow my trans out. But for people who have a big work rig it's definitely possible to go a few hours to pick up the right thing. Annoying, but possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 A round here residential subfloors are typically 3/4". The only time I've seen 1 1/8" used is commercial wood framed structures and possibly town homes/ condos where things had to be fire rated and sprinkled. In this area though 2 story light commercial typically uses concrete pan deck for the 2nd or 3rd floor. I don't do much if any light commercial framing though or do work on developments for big builders. I can only really think of one light commercial job over the years that I was on that had wood floors, and we were pouring the basement walls and basement floor on that job. I do remember we had to pour a concrete deck in part of the 2nd floor under their HVAC equipment to meet fire code. I get my HDO form ply from the same local supplier where we get all our concrete supplies. They are a fairly decent sized supplier as they bend and autoweld all their own wire chairs and wire mats as well as rent forms and sell supplies. We used to get it from our local Symons form dealer, but they closed our local location a few years back when the housing market crashed. I will admit I'm in a fairly heavily built up area being just outside of Philadelphia, so finding commercial suppliers for materials is probably a lot easier for me than guys out in the "boonies". Still with heavy traffic it takes me about an hour to go there to get the stuff even if they are less than probably 35 miles from my place. It also helps to know where to look for stuff like this, as it's not your typical home owner grade stuff. http://www.daytonsuperior.com/forming.aspx We've never had any issues with screws pulling out of the 3/4" form ply and we have quite a bit of weight on the shelves in the store room since we used to stock all our bagged dry color and some of out stamps on those shelves. It's been 10-15 years since we put up those shelves and painted the room, so I can't remember if we managed to screw all the shelf standards into the studs as well. That wouldn't have been hard to do as we could easily see where we drove the nails to attach the sheets at the time. I'm pretty sure most of the standards are on 24" centers and I doubt we framed the walls that way though. I did find this PDF that shows some pull out strengths for standard 3/4" plywood vs 1 1/8" ply from APA ( America Plywood Assn). Table 3 lists pull out loads for #12 screws as 470 lbs in 3/4 ply vs 705 lbs in 1 1/8". They also list pull out loads of 525lbs in 3/4" and 790 lbs in 1 1/8" using #14 screws. Those are straight pull out loads, the shear loads listed were much higher and in many cases limited not by the strength of the plywood, but the light gauge framing members used in the test in Table 2. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.buildgp.com%2FDocumentViewer.aspx%3Frepository%3Dbp%26elementid%3D3806&ei=8HLKUuSCEevIsASDmILIDw&usg=AFQjCNHYpCrGdTKs7xxx_wJJWztOPJC1dA&sig2=Etj8P9sJiMtmIHevv7E67A&bvm=bv.58187178,d.cWc One issue you may find is that because you are going thru 1 1/4" of rock and 1 1/8" of plywood ( including enough to fully penetrate the plywood so you have full thread engagement of the screw, You are already at say 2 1/2" to 3" screws. If what you are hanging on the wall is thick, like the double slotted shelf standards I prefer to use for shop storage, add almost another 1" to that, so you are closer to 4" long for your screws.That means you'll either probably be running heavy wood screws like 12/14's which typically require predrilling, lighter gauge deck screws, or lags. I wouldn't trust drywall screws if you plan heavy loads as they have a tendency to snap fairly easily unless you get the material pretty tight to the solid members. Drywall screws tend to be brittle and snap where deck screws tend to bend. Now having said all that, I've hung a lot of stuff. It's also really tough to locate 4" drywall screws and even 4" deck screws aren't the easiest to locate some times. I like to use star drive self drilling lag screws vs standard hex lags. They can be driven many times with out predrilling due to the tip design, the heads are wider so I don't need washers and the heads are thinner and don't protrude as much. I can also drive them with a star drive bit in my impact driver. The ones I have in the bulk box downstairs right now say "Power Pro" on the box and I picked them up at Lowes in the isle with the bulk screws/bolts in one of the bins. Closest example I can find on the site without the exact model number would be these. They are 5/16" vs 1/4" lags though. http://www.lowes.com/pd_155913-37672-47870_0__?productId=3342802&Ntt=powerpro+constrction+lag+screws&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dpowerpro%2Bconstrction%2Blag%2Bscrews&facetInfo= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 A friend has a shop in California were the codes are heavy. He has sheet rock on the walls then he covered them with 10g steel sheet. He loves it! He just welds on whatever he wants and it he needs to move things, zip and remove! Weld in a new spot! There is a residence upstairs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokey21962 Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 is cement board an option ? heavy !!! but very duable we use it in some place ,durable, wont burn , and moisture wont affect it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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