Sheeting Walls (attached shop)

[Avadon]

A round here residential subfloors are typically 3/4". The only time I've seen 1 1/8" used is commercial wood framed structures and possibly town homes/ condos where things had to be fire rated and sprinkled. In this area though 2 story light commercial typically uses concrete pan deck for the 2nd or 3rd floor. I don't do much if any light commercial framing though or do work on developments for big builders. I can only really think of one light commercial job over the years that I was on that had wood floors, and we were pouring the basement walls and basement floor on that job. I do remember we had to pour a concrete deck in part of the 2nd floor under their HVAC equipment to meet  fire code.

 

 

I get my HDO form ply from the same local supplier where we get all our concrete supplies. They are a fairly decent sized supplier as they bend and autoweld all their own wire chairs and wire mats as well as rent forms and sell supplies. We used to get it from our local Symons form dealer, but they closed our local location a few years back when the housing market crashed. I will admit I'm in a fairly heavily built up area being just outside of Philadelphia, so finding commercial suppliers for materials is probably a lot easier for me than guys out in the "boonies". Still with heavy traffic it takes me about an hour to go there to get the stuff even if they are less than probably 35 miles from my place. It also helps to know where to look for stuff like this, as it's not your typical home owner grade stuff.

 

http://www.daytonsuperior.com/forming.aspx

 

 

We've never had any issues with screws pulling out of the 3/4" form ply and we have qu

 

 

Thanks for the great reply. You're right, in order to install heavy items on the walls we are talking about hex drive lags or as you mentioned the T-30 Torx lags which are unusually impressive in strength and ability to easily drive. I use Grip Rite Rustoleum "Exterior Performance Screws". They come in all sizes, including 4" and since they have a heavy coating they're lifetime guaranteed. However they don't have anything logner than 4" in that grip rite line. They're smooth shank up to a portion and then threads, unlike deck screws.  Though I am still debating using framing screws to hold the 1 1/8'th the walls vs nails. Nails are rated for structural applications such as this, but unfortunately won't sink flush.  I'm sure most would put it up with a nail gun simply for speed.

Any suggestion as to whether I should use nails or construction grade screws to hold on the 1 1/8'th? I did find it in square edge so I don't have to mess with the T&G.

y sure most of the standards are on 24" centers and I doubt we framed the walls that way though.

 

 

I did find this PDF that shows some pull out strengths for standard 3/4" plywood vs 1 1/8" ply from APA ( America Plywood Assn). Table 3 lists pull out loads for #12 screws as 470 lbs in 3/4 ply vs 705 lbs in 1 1/8". They also list pull out loads of  525lbs in 3/4" and 790 lbs in 1 1/8" using #14 screws. Those are straight pull out loads, the shear loads listed were much higher and in many cases limited not by the strength of the plywood, but the light gauge framing members used in the test in Table 2.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CDcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.buildgp.com%2FDocumentViewer.aspx%3Frepository%3Dbp%26elementid%3D3806&ei=8HLKUuSCEevIsASDmILIDw&usg=AFQjCNHYpCrGdTKs7xxx_wJJWztOPJC1dA&sig2=Etj8P9sJiMtmIHevv7E67A&bvm=bv.58187178,d.cWc

 

 

One issue you may find is that because you are going thru 1 1/4" of rock and  1 1/8" of plywood ( including enough to fully penetrate the plywood so you have full thread engagement of the screw, You are already at  say 2 1/2" to 3" screws. If what you are hanging on the wall is thick, like the double slotted shelf standards I prefer to use for shop storage, add almost another 1" to that, so you are closer to 4" long for your screws.That means you'll either probably be running heavy wood screws like 12/14's which typically require predrilling, lighter gauge deck screws, or lags. I wouldn't trust drywall screws if you plan heavy loads as they have a tendency to snap fairly easily unless you get the material pretty tight to the solid members. Drywall screws tend to be brittle and snap where deck screws tend to bend. Now having said all that, I've hung  a lot of stuff. It's also really tough to locate 4" drywall screws and even 4" deck screws aren't the easiest to locate some times.

 

I like to use star drive self drilling lag screws vs standard  hex lags. They can be driven many times with out predrilling due to the tip design, the heads are wider so I don't need washers and the heads are thinner and don't protrude as much. I can also drive them with a star drive bit in my impact driver. The ones I have in the bulk box downstairs right now say "Power Pro" on the box and I picked them up at Lowes in the isle with the bulk screws/bolts in one of the bins. Closest example I can find on the site without the exact model number would be these. They are 5/16" vs 1/4" lags though.

 

http://www.lowes.com/pd_155913-37672-47870_0__?productId=3342802&Ntt=powerpro+constrction+lag+screws&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dpowerpro%2Bconstrction%2Blag%2Bscrews&facetInfo=

 

 

PLEASE edit your quotes bettter, I am not going though all this mess

[Avadon]

A friend has a shop in California were the codes are heavy. He has sheet rock on the walls then he covered them with 10g steel sheet. He loves it! He just welds on whatever he wants and it he needs to move things, zip and remove! Weld in a new spot! There is a residence upstairs....

 

Yes, the codes get very heavy when you have a residence upstairs. I'm sure in such an instance you may even be dealing with two laters of 5/8's on walls, maybe even ceilings in regards to a shop below a residence.

[Avadon]

is cement board an option ? heavy !!! but very duable we use it in some place ,durable, wont burn , and moisture wont affect it .

 

I've heard good things about cement board, but outside of it's use in bathrooms I don't know much about it. I'm not sure how well screws drive through it or hold in it. I would guess about the same as drywall, which isn't saying too much.

Someone reccomended MDF for my STC interior walls as MDF is just amazingly dense at 1", but as for something you can actually hold a screw in, it fails terribly. It acts like pressed cardboard when you're talking about driving big screws or lags in it.

 

The problem that DSW mentions is if you start getting too thick of a wall and plywood isn't near the surface you wind up having to use really long screws to install anything. If you need a 2-3" screw just to hit a stud, then you have to add the thickness of whatever wood or metal your trying to screw to, you start easily getting to a 3-4" screw or more just to hang something. Eeek.

[DSW]

 

Thanks for the great reply. You're right, in order to install heavy items on the walls we are talking about hex drive lags or as you mentioned the T-30 Torx lags which are unusually impressive in strength and ability to easily drive. I use Grip Rite Rustoleum "Exterior Performance Screws". They come in all sizes, including 4" and since they have a heavy coating they're lifetime guaranteed. However they don't have anything logner than 4" in that grip rite line. They're smooth shank up to a portion and then threads, unlike deck screws.  Though I am still debating using framing screws to hold the 1 1/8'th the walls vs nails. Nails are rated for structural applications such as this, but unfortunately won't sink flush.  I'm sure most would put it up with a nail gun simply for speed.

 

 

 

 

I think I dug most if not all of your reply out of the mangled quotes. If not, tell me what I missed.

 

I think the GripRite 4" ones are what I have in the truck for long self drilling screws. I tend to think of them as "deck" screws since most of those outdoor screws are all ACQ rated anyways,

 

Me personally, I'd nail the plywood up, but then I have 3 different framing nailers ( paper tape, wire and plastic coallated) and am sitting on close to 25+ cases of nails of various types I picked up dirt cheap on clearance. I regularly do a lot of light framing with 2 1/2" course thread drywall screws, though the "deck" screws are a bit stronger on average. The extra cost of deck screws means I typically only use them when I'm dealing with PT lumber or exterior use. I buy 1 5/8" and 2 1/2" course thread drywall screws by the 25 lb box and have at least 3 coffee cans full on the truck for work, not to mention the rest of the box in the truck as well. I've used them to attach plywood under kitchen walls so we could attach cabinets to the walls where ever we wanted. I know the HDO inside at the shop is all attached with drywall screws in one area. The rest may be nailed with the framing nailer like the exterior is. I can't remember now.

 

They do make collated flooring screws, that will fit my "drywall" gun. I might be tempted to use them if I had a bunch of plywood to put up and was going to use screws. However I've never tried to drive those horizontally with my gun, only vertically for attaching sub flooring ( gun I used had the flooring extension so I didn't have to bend over) Normally I drive screws with the cordless impact driver ever since I got one. ( If you have never used one, I'd highly recommend them if you have a lot of screws to drive)

 

 

Home Depot rents framing nailers if you wanted to go that route. A small pancake compressor will do the job, but a bigger one wouldn't hurt. 2 3/8" is a typical length for sheathing, though with the 1 1/8" longer wouldn't hurt if you aren't going to glue the plywood as well. Pneumatically driven nails typically are coated with a heat activated glue, and the friction of driving them in melts the glue and literally glues the nails into the material in many cases. It takes a bit of diling in on the pressure to get them to set the way you want. It's a bigger deal if you are working with 1/2" ply where the gun can almost shoot them thru the plywood than it will be in your case. I'd max out the gun and not worry about it with plywood that thick. Some guys prefer framing staples as the head of the staple prevents pull thru's better than clipped head nails, but they are a pain top remove if one doesn't drive right and you can't drive them in with a hammer if they don't fully seat. I think they are better for 1/2" material where you need to worry about over driving nails and have less mass to resist pull thru.

 

 

As far as hand nailing, get a bigger hammer... My 28 oz Eswing framer will sink any nail I want flush or below. The only issue I've ever had was driving nails in dry oak 8x8's in the barn, and the nail gun won't even drive the heavier shanked nails at all in that 80% of the time. We predrill all of those under sized and hand nail the stall boards.

 

 

Keep in mind you don't need to run in a ton of nails or screws if you glue the plywood to the studs. A good top quality adhesive like PL will out hold any screw. I've yet to find a construction adhesive that is stronger. I'll tear the wood or block apart before the glue fails. All you really need to do is get the plywood tight to the studs until the glue sets. After that the screws won't matter. Most newer codes require drywall to be glued to the studs to make the walls "structural" since most newer development homes use the inner drywall as a shear wall for stiffness and strength.

 

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/pl_ca_prem/overview/Loctite-PL-Premium-Polyurethane-Construction-Adhesive.htm

[ianinsa]

Avalon, with the MDF drill a hole glue and hammer in a Dowell then screw into the Dowell like you would a rawlplug.

[bikecopXXX]

Wow that fireproof paint is EXPENSIVE!

[territorialmillworks]

When checking  with the county building inspectors here in Arizona, I learned that there are no codes for residential sprinkler systems in single family homes.  When I built our detached shop, I installed sprinklers with orange (heat rated) pvc pipe at a cost under $200.  Once, I forgot to turn the exhaust fan on and set off the sprinkler above the forge.  Raced outside to the cut-off valve and the handle broke ....ran to the street and turned it off at the meter.  Total elapsed time 2 minutes....Four hours and three cans of wd-40 later I determined that I had 63 clamps and 27 hammers and found some other stuff I didn't even know I had LOL

 

Fast forward a couple of years and I built a ribbon forge.  With the exhaust fan running (yes, I got this part down)  I popped another sprinkler head... didn't think about the extra btu's.  Replaced all the sprinklers with higher temp ratings.  Now some would say that I'm a slow learner.  I prefer to think of myself as......well slow like a short school bus.....  Upside is I got a small break on my homeowner insurance.  Our shop is sheet rocked and 5 years old.  The only real problem has been the power hammer cracking the joints near the power hammer.   

[ThomasPowers]

Artificial "rain" in the shop:  When our house was struck by lightening it followed a disused and stubbed off plumbing vent stack down to the basement and then jumped to a cold water line blowing it apart.  Luckily that section of the basement had a good floor drain and not too many tools in it---we were at the police impound lot seeing if our stolen minivan was salvageable (nope) when the kids called and said "it's raining in the basement" not one of my better days but it was memorable!