Hamon with satanite, how to use it.

[Aden Cassidy]

Hey everyone, just got roughly 4-5 pounds of satanite and was wondering if anyone had any tips on how to use it. Never heard of the stuff till a while ago and it just arrived after a few months wait in a bulk buy with other people. Looking forward to trying it out so am after some tips to help keep the mistakes to a minimum.

Won't be back for 2 weeks as am going to Tasmania for the holidays in another 2 sleeps.

 

The steel I have at the moment is a few bars of 1095, 1084, 15n20, bit of 5160 and 52100 left as well as plenty of coil and leaf springs.

[jmccustomknives]

Mix it up, apply it to the blade with the appropiat amount of steel showing.  Heat and quench.  Use the 1084, while the 1095 will show one the heat treat is a little tricky.  5160 will show one too but it isn't as defined and even more tricky.  The other two won't.  It's all about the proper temps.  Too hot or too cool and it wont work.

I'm sure there's stickies on this.

[homeshow]

Mix up a very little at a time. I apply with a Q-tip. Keep the wet mix in a small jar. Think less air the better. The dry mix if it stays dry lasts forever.

[Rich Hale]

Homeshow do you have some pics of your knives with hamons?

[Aden Cassidy]

Do you just use water to mix it up, also any safety gear needed for use with it.

[Frosty]

While I'm not a bladesmith guy I do have a thought or two. My first thought being: Satanite is too valuable as a high end kiln wash and many other refractories are perfectly useful to produce hamon. One of Satanite's strengths as a kiln wash is it's resistance to chemical action at high temperature and it's IR reflectivity.

 

Being IR reflective is a plus for using it to produce hamon. It's chemical resistance on the other hand makes no difference but is a MAJOR plus for washing the inside of a gas forge to protect it from flux damage.

 

I look forward to the blade guys taking my thoughts apart, plus or minus, it's all good info.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[basher]

I am glad you can still get satanite as the similar products we have here are full of grog (not much good for hamon). I have a limited supply and will now hunt out some more.

 I use satanite along with anti scaling compound I first do a thin wash on the whole blade and let it dry.

 then mix up the satanite with a little water to a nice smooth paste (with a hand whisk or powered blender) .the paste has the consistency of between ketchup and toothpaste.

 I apply with coffee stirrers and toothpicks , putting a tooth pic into water to pick up a drop and then dragging satanite from the back of the blade along with the drop of water to form ashi lines.

 I cook the whole blade + clay at 70C in an oven.

 

How the hamon follows the clay (or not) depends upon :-

steel type,

blade geometry,

clay thickness,

quench medium be it water , water then oil or fast oil.

steel temp at quench and soak time as well as normalising .

multiple normalisations can reduce the hardenability of medium hardening steels to make them suitable for hamon.

 

 you have to really chose one suitable steel and blade geometry and try it again and again to get any understanding of how the clay affects the hardening of the blade.

have fun and post pictures.

[Ric Furrer]

Basher,

I can fit 20 pounds into an international postal box if you wish.

I'll write.."not cocaine"... on the box to be sure it gets to you. Wrapped up all nice with plastic and tape and coffee beans.

 

Ric

[quint]

Out of the steels you have the only one that will produce a nice hamon is the 1095, the others will show a temper line but not really a hamon per say. If you want to differential HT them for the flexibility that is one thing but I wouldnt try for a nice hamon with them. 1095 although tricky can be done and if its aldo's 1095 makes a great hamon. 

 

I usually take a small amount of satanite and mix it up then take a small amount and wipe it on the entire blade. Wipe this in all over then wipe off any extra so there is just a grey haze over the blade. Then I apply a thin layer 1/8" tops to the area above where you want the hamon. You can drop some ashi lines down a little and what not. 

 

ALso of note is water and oil will affect where the hamon falls differently. It will take a little practice to get it right where you want it. 

[Benton Frisse]

Okay, so I have a question. Do you put the clay/satanite on the blade AFTER hardening, then do your heat and quench for temper, and then does the polish (emery cloth or stones, whatever the preferred method) bring out the hamon/temper line even more? 

 

lol @ Ric's comment. Be sure to add "NOT FROM COLUMBIA" 

[Aden Cassidy]

You do it before you harden as it marks the line between the harder edge and softer spine where the satanite/clay was. And yes polishing the blade till it shines then a slight etch to bring it out is what works best.

[Benton Frisse]

Wonderful, thank you Aden! 

[ThomasPowers]

The term clay tempering is often used for this technique; BUT NOT BY SMITHS!  as it's clearly a differential hardening technique and not a differential tempering technique!