This may be a dumb question, or it could be brilliant...funny how often those are the two possibilities. I was thinking today that on all my snubs of 7018 welding rod, would it be possible to break off the remaining flux and mash it to a fine powder to use as a forge welding flux? I know that different welding rods have different flux compositions but for forge welding? Just a thought and for the next few days I wont have time to try it out. Just wondering if anyone here has tried this or could theorize as to the outcome.

-Crazy Ivan

They make powdered fluxes for doing sub arc welding. I have no idea if something like this would be useful for forge welding or not.

I'm sure that the professional welders on this forum can provide a better answer...... but if I remember correctly from the welding course that I took many years ago, isn't the main purpose of the coating on welding rods to provide an oxygen-free area around the area being electrically welded?  And don't the fumes generated by the coating on the rods need to be vented away due to its heath hazards?

 

I am not an expert on welding rod coatings, but I would personally just stick with 20 Mule Team Borax. 

Yes you are correct that the flux shields the weld from the atmosphere, both by creating gasses that shield the puddle as well as creating a glass like coating to protect the weld until cool. Each rod type has a different type of flux. 6010/11 has a thin flux and rods like 7018, 7024 have a much heavier flux.

 

However they also add additives to some fluxes that help with material deposition. 7024 is a high iron powder flux and it allows you to lay down more weld material than a rod of similar diameter with a different coating. 7014 has a similar flux but with less iron powder allowing it to be used in all positions vs just flat/horizontal filet fro 7024.

I have no problems with using borax, I was just wondering if I could use the remaining flux on my spent snubs because i hate letting anything go to waste. This is more of a re-purposing type question then anything else. Thank you for your inputs!

-Crazy Ivan

Why not try it and let us know if it works.

From another site on the subject of forge welding flux

 

kerosene, canola oil, graphite and a slurry of black carbon oxide with water. Amazingly, they all work to weld with. That being said, I read that you can weld with NOTHING added, just clean steel.

 

No additional details were given

After spending some time watching some British smiths laitly and practicing I have become more comfortable not using any flux at all.

I would say avoid specialty rods for vertical down welds with quickset fluxes and you should be fine. As long as the flux can be flicked away to a thin layer as you move to the anvil.

 

There may be a small amount of oxidized and set flux right at the tip, I would remove that with some wire cutters and crush the rest nice and fine and dry it in the oven.

 

I am interested to see how you go with the iron powder rods. I have lots of them that have got wet and the flux is crumbling off.

Well, I tried it out today and it did not seem to work too well. Not to say that it doesn't work, but it took a good bit longer to get the stuff to melt and run and when it did, I had trouble getting it to leave the weld area upon striking (making voids in the weld). I was using a gas forge. Maybe some of you with a coal forge should see if you have better luck (some people weld without any flux in a coal forge I'm told). Anyone else who decides to try it out, please let us know how it works for you. As for me, I'm sticking with the Borax. Also, if you try other rod types out, there may be a different result (I tried 7018). I would love to hear how anyone else fares with this.

-Crazy Ivan

Just a thought: use it or not...forge for a few years using things that work for others regularly,,,then try all kind of new things...Yoiu will then know if wot you try works or not as you will have history for comparison.

Ivan

I was a production welder for 20+ years. Most of that was MIG welding but did get training in shielded metal arc welding; SMAW or stick arc welding. The "flux" on arc welding electrodes doesn't work the same during arc welding as flux does during forge welding or gas welding. The flux coating disintegrates creating a gaseous shield around the arc weld much the way inert gasses are used during MIG welding. It also leaves a slag coating over the weld. Both serve to avoid contamination of the weld surface. It doesn't melt and penetrate between the metals being welded like fluxes used for forge and gas welding but rather burns during welding to create the gas shield and stays on the surface. The melting you experienced is happening too slow and uncontrolled to work as a suitable forge welding flux. Hope this is helpful

Scott

Some of the reading i remember on fluxes are

 

mud dobber nests

 

ground coke bottles 

 

white sand

 

boric acid and borax

 

 

I never used sub arc arc flux for forge welding. But I did run a couple test plates with powdered charcoal in the mix and came up with some steel.

 

I Googled  welding rods and came up with "DIY welding rods"

The op was crushing silica beads  sodium silicate ( the stuff in the do not eat pkg. in bacon bits etc.) making a slurry of the silica, soaking paper and wrapping the paper around a metal rod.

See the article.

Not wishing to repeat myself we had a wonderful gentleman from England demonstrate for us Paul Allen. Using a side draft forge he must have done a hundred forge welds  with no flux .  Latter on in the week I built a similar forge there is a higher frequency of  forge welds with no flux succeeding than wit a bottom draft forge I do not know why. Just a thought

I havent seen any botom draft forges,  but I have seen a few botom draft welding tables, do they work the same ?

I havent seen any botom draft forges,  but I have seen a few botom draft welding tables, do they work the same ?

 

I was going to make a smart alec remark about you and bottom drafts Steve but. . . <grin>

 

Another thing welding rod flux does when it burns in the arc is the shielding gasses provide an ionized path (plasma column) for the arc. This is why it's so much easier to maintain an arc AFTER it's struck. Yeah yeah I know that sounds too obvious but before the plasma column made by the burning flux is formed the rod tends to stick. You know how sticky the rod can be when striking an arc and that it's one of the skills that takes time to learn. Heck, try striking let alone maintaining an arc after stripping the flux off the rod.

 

Arc welding flux has an entirely different job than a diffusion (forge) welding flux.

 

Frosty The Lucky.