It's a sad note

[SoCal Dave]

I went to visit a Blacksmith, Benard Collins, today who does very elaborate and wonderful work.  He works in stainless steel, bronze and steel. I read an article in the local newspaper about him and arranged to meet him.  A small shop filled with wonder pieces that he has made.  He is having a difficult financial time these days as he says "people want things for cheap".  As usual, when you look at his work you realize how much time and effort must go into all his projects, and how much he must charge to even brake even.  But, today, it doesn't seem that people want to pay for that effort. It is a sad state of affairs where we are today with blacksmith artists.  I really don't see a way out for those struggling artist.  It seems to me that there is lots of money out there but not for craft people.  The stock market has rebound and many are making millions of dollars.  The craft fairs seems to have a price point and when you figure in the cost of paying for a location at a fair, transportation, the cost of producing the pieces, it becomes outrageous how many piece an artist must sell to even brake even.  Just had to get this off my mind since I saw a hard working man who should be selling all his work and not have business struggles because of a lack of customers.     
   

[DSW]

He is having a difficult financial time these days as he says "people want things for cheap". 

 

 

It's not just artists that are having trouble. A lot of people I know are wanting stuff cheap. It's tough to compete with companies that offer cut price "deals".

 

 

 

It seems to me that there is lots of money out there but not for craft people.  The stock market has rebound and many are making millions of dollars. 

 

 

Not sure I agree there. Lots of stocks getting traded, but today I think the vast majority are being traded by big funds, not small investors. I haven't yet seen any kind of jump in disposable income for the average person and I doubt I will in the near future.

 

 

Tough subject to discuss and not get into the general state of the economy and  "politics".

[John McPherson]

Craft and Art can be two different things. Some folks are great craftsmen, but not great artists. Some are great artists, but mediocre craftsmen. Creativity and office skills seem to be inversely proportional.

 

Starving artists (and craftsmen) are a time-worn cliche' because of poor planning, salesmanship and marketing. This is where having a front office pays for itself. Someone has to take care of the taxes, accounting, sales calls, brochures, show bookings, etc. If you do it, it takes away from your productive hours. Or your home life, sleep, kids ball games......

 

Just as there are "one percenters" in personal wealth, there are renowned and successful artists, even in metal. Look at the front ranks of table holders at the annual Blade Show. Two hours after the doors open, they leave a stack of business cards and the engraved plaque that they bring to all shows (Sold Out, Taking Orders) on the empty table with a photo display of past work.

 

There are ornamental iron shops that ship nationwide. They do not advertise in the phone book because that is not where their clientele shops. Architects call them, and they stay booked months in advance. They always attend the annual NOMMA show, and get awards in the trade magazines.

 

It is no secret that the middle class is getting hammered pretty hard in the last few decades. But Nordstroms and the other stores in the high end mall are not having to put on "2 for 1" sales to get the well-heeled to start Christmas shopping. Someone has disposable income, how do YOU reach them, tap into that market?

 

On the other end of the spectrum, someone once said "The stuff on your table has to be priced under $20, and look good in a doublewide".

[Eddie Mullins]

Dave - I certainly can relate. The smith that helped me get started is now going part time and has taken a different job. My wife is a wire artist among other things, doing craft shows, so I see that side of things too. However I have to agree with a lot of what John said. Its takes more than the talent, there's lots of variables and they don't always align.

[Jim Coke]

Greetings above,

 

It is a much different market out there today.. Our young people just don't want to invest in long term improvements and art for there homes.  I successfully operated a blacksmith shop for 16 years.  Retired at 68 and moved north.   I did many things for people and diversified my business.  Yep I would do the walk in weld jobs and repairs for grandmas teapot but those things kept the cash flowing.  Oddly enough because of my equipment base I would do a lot of jobs for other artist who did not have the expertise or tools to complete the work they took in.  I branched into conservative work for galleries and art dealers which was quite lucrative. I developed a great customer base so it took me a year to close my shop.  If I had to offer advice it would be expand your market and get your skills known by as many designers , dealers, artists, and galleries as you can .  The work will follow.  I used to tell my customers that you are buying a time frame of my life not just an object. Unfortunately people today live in an instant gratification world and want things right now. I have done quotes for customers that clearly showed that it was 100 hours labor and there next question was can I have it in two days ... DAAA  Have faith and adjust it is a great industry .  You just have to adjust your thinking.  That's my 2c

 

Forge on and make beautiful things

Jim

[Rich Hale]

Think back to times so far back they are before me! A community could not exist withouit a blacksmith. They did so many essential things they were a foundation for a town. They made nails..they made them until it wsa cheaper and easier to have kegs of them brought in, They spent the time making some4thing else the found a need for. They made horshoes and shod horses.  At some point they made some ornamental things,,, May have been about the time some of them stopped with horses. WE couild go on and on with this but the point being, with economic growth a smith worked and moved ahead with the times. Some of them became amazing in wot they crafted. some of them did not.   And aloong the way there have been drastic changes to our way of lifee. The current one is not the first or likely the last. Some will continue and struggle, some will fail and stop smithing..some will add something else to their bag of tricks to keep working on a limited bases at smithing. Business plans suggest a lot of ways to look at wot you are doing. Like short, long and longer term goals based on a real look at your surrouindings. Can you move forward? Will your present plan continue that progress? If you are stalemated in your present situation would adding additional skills push you along? can you afford to gain those skills?

The heading says,,Its so sad..and it may be an understatement to have the smith in the thread at a point that he is in.

Sad also that in the time I have taken to type this I have not offered a solution or direction that is of help.

[SoCal Dave]

This society has become a throw away/disposable world in which there is little value in handcrafted objects.  With the advent of water jets and lasers and robots that can do so many things in such a short time and in such great detail, blacksmiths or craft people find it more difficult to compete with these machines.  What was extremely difficult or labor intensive before can be programed to produce 100 items in seconds.  I know there is a market for hand made items, but I feel that market is shrinking each and everyday.  I feel kind of like Rich Hale.  In the time I have taken to type this response, I have not offered a solution or direction because I don't see one.  It must be to just survive and stay the course. It's a sad note!  

[Wroughton]

Dave,

 

I see parts of my market philosophy in John and Jim's words. For most of us, our neighbors are not our clients. Catering to your neighbor can

mean a study in frustration and wasted time due to the "instant gratification" mentality as mentioned by Jim. Not to say that some of the upper crust doesn't suffer from this problem from time to time. While disposable $10K + UTV's and flat screen TV's that will be dead in a couple years are bought hand over fist for every garage and every room, the investment of heirloom quality work is not on the radar for most of the american public. I don't think this is actually a divergence from the past. In the past only the wealthy could commission anything more than a garden gate from a competent metal shop. There are several ways to become a great smith but wealthy people make them (enable them?) faster than any other. 

 

As John said, you may do great work but don't wait to be discovered, depending on what kind of work you most enjoy doing, get your name out there. Architects, designers and their ilk can be distant and hard to engage so real samples and a well put together portfolio will/can do the talking for you. Prepare your portfolio and make samples,samples,samples. Also be prepared to never see them again so label and mark them well. 

 

Farce-itects and catalog buyers are different than architects and designers.

 

Know the difference. 

 

If they want to compare cheap foreign knock offs to your work in any category (quality, delivery time line, etc.) or generally try to half price your bids/estimates then walk quickly and don't look back. Beginning to bargain for your lively hood with someone that doesn't respect your work is a waste of your valuable time. 

 

 

If your more of the speculative smith, gallery Co-ops with artists in other media are a great way to sell your wares, especially if you have

a democratic disposition.  Hand made shows and fairs are also your realm if you make product to sell. Not all are created equal, and very

few are consistent in public exposure over the long run. Hoping for a good show is different than doing your due diligence. Networking with other smiths and artisans about shows AND architects and designers can save you huge amounts of time/money. 

If you're this smith then be PROLIFIC. The bank will usually loan 80% on finished goods, $50 items stack up quickly in production. 

 

And believe it or not, when I started to babble along on this thread I didn't realize it was my businesses 10 year anniversary today. 

I've survived (read: too stupid to quit and a very, very understanding wife) by being diversified and not relying on any one or two jobs to keep the business in positive cash flow. I haven't sold my plasma or blood yet, but a sad truth it is, on average, a welder can make you more money than your forge. 

 

Hunt the fat wallet.

Don't pass up a quick welding/fab job that walks in your door. This is classified as a windfall and shouldn't be sneered at. 
Know your market and your peers in other media in your area. Be involved. Supporting artisans in the metal trades AND other media is a great 

way to be introduced to qualified and vetted clients. 

Do pass on encounters with people that want to bargain. Working for less takes you out of the market and you can potentially not be around or available when a real "patron" comes along. 

[John McPherson]

"Better to light a candle than curse the darkness."

I do not know anyone who is still doing 40 years later the same thing they were doing after high school/college. In this modern age, you have to re-invent yourself every few years, or end up in a dead end. Jobs appear and disappear with changes in the economy, technology, even the tastes of the consumer. Education takes time and money, whether you spend a few hours every week to read books, trade journals and websites, take a few classes from the Small Business center, or go back to college. An ABS Mastersmith (and National Living Treasure) said once that he took Psychology classes to better understand how to appeal to consumers, among other college classes.


" A candle loses nothing of itself by lighting another candle."

Networking and collaboration are some of the cornerstones of success. Teaching others makes you organize your thoughts and processes to come up with a lesson plan. Taking classes, doing a demo, attending other demos, meetings, and conferences expands your horizons and skill set. Who knows, you may end up collaborating with others on a project too big for any one of you. Don't think of groups as people out to steal your ideas, think of it as a pot-luck supper, where everyone brings their specialty to the table, and you get to sample.


The only thing going with the flow is deadwood. Better start paddling, whether your destination is upstream, downstream, or the far shore.

Hey, I'm only 14,000 posts behind Thomas P. (Grin)

[Jim Coke]

If you feel strong about something ... push the post button twice..LOL   I think we are all  on the same page.  Learn and adjust to the market..

 

Forge on and make beautiful things

Jim

[njanvilman]

I salute any blacksmith who can survive with that alone.  I personally know of only a few blacksmiths that do only that.  Most of the others have a primary job to support them, whether it be teaching, engineering, farming, or some other trade.    The skills needed to survive are way beyond me, being an artist, craftsman, businessman, and salesman all rolled into one.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I know artists who are doing quite well in this economy. How? They are better salesmen than the other guys. You cannot use old methods in this millennium. One artist friend is doing very well with Facebook. He has moved $500 paintings in 15 minutes after posting them, seen it a few times.

I explain to my artist friends that we make items that people do not need, and that there are thousands of talented artists just in our area alone. The trick is making yourself stand out from all of the rest.

There are people out there who appreciate old world skills , and will pay for them. If you are not making sales, you need to do a better job of marketing.

[Geoff Keyes]

I had an experience just recently that is part of this discussion.  Last weekend we went into a small town nearby where my favorite potter has his shop.  He's been working in the local area since 1983 and has gone from a one man shop and street fairs to a large facility where he makes small production runs, one off work, custom work, and teaches classes.  We went in because we use his pieces as our everyday eating ware, plates, bowls, casseroles, canisters, cups and mugs, pretty much everything.  Pieces get broken and we were after some replacements.  We spent $100, mostly on seconds, and got a half dozen things, all of it hand made by a first rate craftsman.

 

Yesterday we were talking about a dinner party we are having on Saturday (Not Thanksgiving, for those fed up with relatives) and realized we did not have enough plates and such.  We could have gone with paper (ick!), and we thought about Goodwill.  In the end we went to the Dollar Store.  We bought 20 plates, 20 bowls, and a bunch of other party stuff,  for less than $50.  The plates are china, made in China, and hand painted (lots of little variations).

 

I don't understand how a single ceramic plate can be made, painted, fired, packed and shipped, distributed to stores, all for $1 (.90, after our discount!).  Americans, and I suspect people everywhere, want stuff, we want it now, we want it cheap, we want lots of it, and that is what I got.

 

As an Artist/Craftsman you are not even in the same market.  You probably can't sell to the person who only knows the now/cheap/lots model, not without a lot of education.  It's up to us to teach people that they want heirlooms, that they need the one off, hand made thing.  It's part of the job of the Artist.

 

Geoff

[Steve Sells]

It is hard for a shop here to compete with MaoMart type stores and their mass production and near slave labor. At the wages of 25 cents or less a hour many earn to make these items what else can we call honestly it.   Marketing is all we have, we must teach our clients why ours is worth it, or we will close shop.

[SoCal Dave]

I've read all the comments above and understand what a artist/craftperson/blacksmith must do to survive or thrive in todays market.  But, aren't we asking a lot from the craft person?  I do understand, but why is that the craft person has to wear all these different hats.  What if the blacksmith is a really good blacksmith, but is not good in all the other aspects of a business, or, doesn't like the business part.  When the blacksmith was king, people came to him.  I just want a little of that today.  Is that impossible? The answer is yes.   It is a sad note

[Geoff Keyes]

I'm not sure there ever was a time when a "blacksmith was king".   Sam Yellin was a master salesman.  That was why he could have a shop that employed 100 smiths.

 

 I spent a wonderful evening with an old school traditional European trained smith named John Adolphson.  He did a 7 year apprenticeship in post war Germany.  They learned how to smith, how to bid a job, how to keep the books, how to supervise apprentices and journeymen, how to train smiths, how to run a farm to feed the staff, and, how to market the work of the shop.  I'm sure there was a point when he looked back and said "The best job was when I was an apprentice".  But you know what we call an Artist who can't market his own work?  A waiter.

 

It's not sad, it just is.  And getting nostalgic for some mythic time when people worshiped the scale you walked on is a waste of spirit.  You want to be a smith?  Then go get the iron hot and hit it.  While it's heating, you can mull over how hard it is to do the thing that you've chosen to do.

 

Geoff

[SoCal Dave]

Geoff, there is truth in what you say.  Yellin's society doesn't exist anymore and that was my point.  But, as you mention above, getting iron hot and hitting it won't help you with internet sales, domain name, etc.  My spirit goes where it wants to and for a moment, it was reflective on the different aspect a blacksmith must master today to survive in a small shop.  

[John McPherson]

Yellin hired hundreds of metal artists who had the same European training that he did, frequently right off the arrival docks. Some of them may even have been better craftsmen. None of them were the businessman that he was.

 

In the same era, Tesla was a greater genius with electricity than anyone else alive, but worked for others for wages and died broke. Ford did not make the best car on the road, just a good cheap vehicle with a great sales pitch. The list goes on.

 

And hey, you could have been a smith in an ancient Mediterranean country. They would have crippled you so that you could not run away. Right there is your value to the community, also your standing in the pecking order. Talented servant, or just a well treated slave.

 

The good old days were never as good as we would like to think they were. And smiths were never in the gentry, although some gentry knew something about smithing before they became gentrified.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I saw an episode on Modern Masters years ago that had a smith who made custom entry gates for mansions. He got $100,000 for one gate if I remember right.

I see blacksmithing as an artistic endeavor nowadays. Industrial forging is pretty much outside the realm of a small shop due to regulations, certifications, competition, liability, etc. Most of what the blacksmith made in the old days is now bought at a big box store. So, what does that leave? Artistic pieces, architectural pieces, blades, etc. Items that lend themselves to one off production. Art is a very tough subject to cover as there are so many variables to selling it. Look for the thread titled Pricing your Work. I think to make a living smithing one will need to find a niche market IE;restorations, blades, historical recreations, etc. ,and maximize it.

[SoCal Dave]

Maybe some of the other smith's who have employee's can add their comments about what is required by regulations to employe someone today and the cost.  What would it cost for Yellin to pay for 100 smiths.  Add to that the cost of insurance coverage he had to maintain.   

[DSW]

While not for "smithing", it was going to cost me almost $4K to add just one employee just for workmans comp insurance ( minimum coverage they would let me buy). That doesn't include Social Security, unemployment and the rest of the mandated costs. As much as I'd like to have someone working for me PT, there's no way to absorb those costs at this time. With health care, it will only get worse.

 

 

From what I understand even for "unpaid" help, you still have to have a policy in place to cover them in case they get injured.

[SoCal Dave]

To the point, but off blacksmithing, I read a book by Sandra Day Oconner, about her life growing up on a ranch in Arizona.  They had a few ranch hands and they were paid a wage, but they were a lot tougher than most today.   One old timer got his shoulder dislocated and showed up the next day for a full days work without a single complaint.  No insurance in those days.  There are places today that are run that way. Of course, a man's word was his bond, and people took care of loyal employees for life.  That doesn't mean they provide cell phones for each employee.    

[Frank Turley]

I briefly met the "Indian painter" Fritz Scholder when he moved to Santa Fe. At one point, I sold him a tomcat. Fritz had a good background in painting, had an MFA, and was part Indian (Mission from California). He used to stroll from his studio on Canyon Road (billed as the "Arts and Crafts Road") to the newspaper office maybe once a month, with his personally written press releases. A release might be on the order of, "Prominent art collector, Jane Doe of Pittsburgh, has purchased two Fritz Scholder paintings: "Chief Powhaten" and "Mesquakie Warrior." Etc. Another approach might be, "Renowned Indian artist, Fritz Scholder, will hold an open house at his Canyon Road studio/home this coming Saturday. Finger food and refreshments." You get the idea. He was writing the press releases as though written by a staff writer, but self written and self delivered.

 

http://www.fritzscholder.com

[SoCal Dave]

The idea came to me that maybe I should be like Fritz and just make items that I want to make and sell them, rather than wait for commission.   I should build an inventory of pieces that I like with press releases.  Thanks Frank! 

[Wroughton]

You're not far off Dave! 

 

 

I can't call this a favorite read but it'll open your eyes as to what your predecessors muddled through. 

 

The Blacksmith's History by A. Tucket (What Smithy Workers Gave Trade Unionism)

 

A history of blacksmiths and their ilk in the UK getting run over by the man AND the industrial revolution. 

 

I think we might have it easy.