Railroad Track as stock? Not an Anvil?

[Gromgor]

Alright. I admit. I'm VERY new to blacksmithing. I'm full of dumb questions and I'm about to ask one, I believe.

 

Anyway, I have about an 8' section of railroad track my roommate brought home from his job. They had a track installed that used to supply the factory he works at. They no longer use it, so they were scrapping all of the track.

 

Obviously I now have a small railroad track anvil. However I still have about 8' of track that I need to figure out what I'm going to do with. As I sat in my chair, under my carport, looking at this hunk of metal, trying to dream up the best uses of it, it occurred to me to just cut the whole top of it off from the rest of the track. 

 

I mean, it's shaped like an I beam, If you were to remove the top from the middle, vertical support section, leaving a t beam I suppose, then you would have about a 1 to 1 1/2 inch thick (rough estimate. Never actually measured it) by three inch wide by 8 foot long hunk of quality metal to make use of. 

 

XXXXX, I could break the whole thing down and have some 1/4 inch by 4' or so stock to make use of as well.

 

Anybody see any problems with this? My grinder cuts through the track pretty easily, The blades just aren't large enough to allow me to easily cut it into smaller sections, due to the grinder "bottoming out" because of the shape of the track. However changing the direction and location of where I do my actual cutting would be simple and very possible.

 

So, any warnings or suggestions?

[DSW]

With 8 feet of track you have plenty of material to set the rail vertical to use as an anvil. In fact you have enough to set two pieces vertical back to back and increase your striking surface if you wanted. You'll have a much better anvil than the small piece of track you are using now.

[Stephen Olivo]

If I remember correctly there are some stuff on anvilfire that deals with tooling from rail road track.  I suggest a large vertical piece of rail for your anvil and one smaller vertical piece for a bench anvil.  The rest could be cut up to make a hardy plate for your new anvil to hold tooling.  and if you cut off the flange at the bottom and section off the remaining rail you have ready made square shanks for hardy tools.  I will say be careful of sparks starting other things on fire including yourself.  

[JNewman]

I think there is a thread somewhere here and I have also seen someone else do this.  You can cut a slice of the track about 1" long,  draw the top out to a shoudered shank then draw the 2 flanges on the bottom one to a round taper the other to a square.  You now have a bick iron.  The steel in rail track is high carbon good for tools but hard work to forge. 

[ThomasPowers]

Cut it up as you need it!  Pre-cutting leads to having to hunt down more cause you need a piece just a bit longer than the precut ones.

[Gromgor]

I'm of the belief that Steven Olivio and ThomasPowers were the only ones that even read my post.

 

I don't want an anvil. I'm asking about cutting it up to use as stock.

 

Thank you ThomasPowers and Steven Olivio.

[JNewman]

Sounds like YOU didn't read my post. 

[ThomasPowers]

It's good steel, just it comes in an inconvient shape for many things.

[neg]

I'm of the belief that Steven Olivio and ThomasPowers were the only ones that even read my post.

 

I don't want an anvil. I'm asking about cutting it up to use as stock.

 

Thank you ThomasPowers and Steven Olivio.

Well, if all you have is a small railroad track anvil, you're going to have a really hard time forging that 1 1/2"x3" hunk of steel on it, so I think the other suggestions are quite relevant. Everyone that's commented in this thread are more knowlegable smiths than you, so try to be appreciative of their input.

[Nobody Special]

I've seen them cut up and used as stands, one had a hole drilled in it and acted as a poker stand.  Also seen them as a base for a fireplace tool holder stand, boot scraper, and other stuff.... Nice because it made use of the weight and the basic shape without further forging of the large stock once it was cut.

[Gromgor]

Sounds like YOU didn't read my post. 

No. I did. Thank you for the info about it being High Carbon and good for tools but - 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=bick+iron&oq=bick+iron&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j0l4.1417j0j8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

 

Unless a bick iron is something other than what google is calling it, you told me how to make an anvil. 

 

Neg, if I ask how to bake a cake and people tell me how to milk a cow, I'm no closer to an answer than if they hadn't answered in the first place. Regardless of experience. I get the impression that most of the people that saw this read the words "railroad track" and immediately assumed it was a question about a RR track anvil. 

 

I'm not trying to be rude. I'm trying to get an answer, and not the wrong answer. 

 

And thank you again ThomasPowers. You answered my question. 

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Well, if you looked closely at the Google link you supplied you would see that a bick iron is a tool that is used in the hardy hole of your anvil. Take a little time to study what is offered you before jumping on the information provider.

Alrighty, you have admitted to being very new to smithing and you have come a forum that literally has thousands of years of experience in its membership. Do not be so uppity if someone does not give the answer that you are expecting, but instead look at why they suggested what they did. A section of rail on end is a far better anvil than a short section used horizontally due to the larger mass under the hammer. The anvil only has to be bigger than the hammer used, so the end of a rail is fine for a lot of smithing projects.

[Ridgewayforge]

An additional point, before cutting it up, learn how high carbon forges. I attempted using rail, and got it too hot, and ruined it. I would advise chopping a 2" section off, and try it and see for yourself the skill and hard work it takes. Also, read up on the forging temperatures of steel. If you truly are a starting out, I would advise that you stick with some low carbon or hot rolled steel. That will give you the skills you need to later on make stuff out of it. 

Also, spring steel is easier and a little more forgiving to forge into tools, and you won't start making anything bigger than coil spring will provide you with. 

[ThomasPowers]

Well a Bickern is a nice thing to have if you have an "improvised anvil" that is hornless.  Also a small bick is handy if you do a lot of sockets for arrows.

 

In general high carbon steel is harder under the hammer---which is why many folks over heat it trying to get it "soft" only to learn that high carbon steels burn at a lower temp than true mild steel.

 

High C is like Wrought iron in that it surprises the smith trained on mild steel by it's quite different working temps and methods.  I came into smithing through knifemaking and it takes an act of will to heat Wrought Iron up to the temp it likes cause my "instincts" are screaming in the back of my heat---"You're going to BURN it!"

[Chinobi]

unless you did some modifications to your railroad track anvil you will be lacking in a bick to draw out on, bend scrolls and the like, shape sockets, and perform other tasks that benefit form having a larger radius than the edges of your anvil provides.  so to suggest making a tool that complements your existing anvil by expanding the tasks you can perform is a perfectly valid answer to the question of what else to make from RR track than a straight up vertically mounted anvil.

 

if you are equipped to cut it efficiently you can make a variety of tooling from slices of it, just be prepared to do a bit of drawing down to change the D shaped rail head to bar stock.  you could probably make a monster of a hot cut from it if you were so inclined, maybe even make it vice mounted so you don't have to try and forge or attach a shank to it, just cut or fuller in the bottom so it will rest on top of the vice jaws with a tab for the vice to close on.  you could probably do that without even lighting your forge if you are on good terms with your grinder.

 

I know a guy that made a HUGE 6 lb diagonal pein from a section of RR track, not a sledge either, hand hammer.  but you could probably make a pretty decent sledge hammer head from it as well.

 

I think you are in for a serious fight trying to forge track ON track though, that's going to be a LOT of effort!

 

good luck!

[Charles R. Stevens]

He'a hardheaded enugh to make a smith.
All kidding aside, many mistakes have been made repeatably. Most of us try to head them off at the pass, as we have been there and done that. A few of the folks here teach, and they can see the mistakes your going to make befor you even light the fire. Try to be patient with us, and we'll try and be patient with you.
As to rail, make a large hot set, and go to town. Lots of good steel. After you forge up that 8' of rail you'll look like one of those Hollywood smiths ;-)

[Jim Coke]

Greetings Gro,

 

Sounds like you are going to expend a lot of energy and not to mention cut off disc and disposables to save a chunk of iron...   I listed a slick set up for some railroad track that might  just serve you well.....   STS WONDER TOOL....   Look it up it might just work for you..   Good luck...

 

Forge on and make beautiful things

Jim

[Quarry Dog]

  The primary reason that a vertical anvil was suggested is that because it has more mass directly under the hammer, a 3' section of 120 lb. rail (rail is weighed in 3' sections, so 3' of 120, is 120 lbs.) can actually work more efficiently than comparatively sized anvil.  The mass most directly in line your hammer blow has the most effect. Once you get out past 45° from the hammer blow, the mass begins having more and more diminished returns.  I'm guessing the anvil you made is about 10" to 1' long, which means that you would have at most 3 or 4 lbs. directly under your hammer, instead of even the 40 lbs. in that foot long section.  Even standing that 1 foot section on end would return a lot more love than laying it flat.  It does still have it's uses horizontally though.  If you grind it nice and flat, it would still be very good for doing the final straightening on a piece of work.

  If you want the best of both worlds, you could shape a horn onto your 1' anvil (if you haven't already), cut the webbing off, and weld it (full penetration) to the top of a vertical rail.  You would then have all kinds of love being returned on the face that is directly over the vertical portion, and wouldn't have to go through changes to use the horn for bending.  Just make sure to pre/post heat the rail sections before welding, or they might crack on you.

  The rest of the rail would be good for a few hammers, bottom tools (hardies, bottom fullers, bottom swages, edge blocks, bickirons, mandrels, etc.), and top tools (flatters, sets, top fullers, top swages, etc.)   Bickirons are very handy for flaring small pipe, like for cups on candle holders.  Hardie mandrels are superior for truing up small rings, as when the ring is true it will sit level.  You can't really true up a ring on a london pattern horn because they aren't a true cone, they're more like a cone that's flexing it's muscle, and so it is hard to find a truly circular cross section.

  Don't shoot people down when they suggest something that you already ruled out.  A better response would be to look at why they suggested it again.  Around here, especially when you say that you're new, it's likely that they see what you're saying, remember the troubles they caused themselves in similar situations and are trying to keep those troubles from befalling you.

  I haven't tried a horizontal rail anvil, but I hear they are miserable to work on.  The only complaint I hear from post anvils, whether made of rail, or round stock, is that they don't usually have much of a face, or a horn.

[Ridgewayforge]

Horizontal rail is okay, it just takes more effort. It is what I use, and I have regularly beaten down 3/4" stock. It just takes a little hard-headedness, in my opinion, as I just go at it with determination. For small stock such as beginners would be using, it is not a problem at all. (Granted, I also have mine securely fashioned to a railroad baseplate and held down with four rr spikes.) 

 

Gromgor, the question is, is it worth it to go through that much effort? You could probably scrap that rail for several hundred dollars, buy a london pattern anvil and some known stock and make tools from it, for less than you would if you used the discs and time to cut it up. Just a thought to consider. 

[ThomasPowers]

Where are you scrapping stuff where they are paying you several dollars per pound?

 

8' of rail at 100# rail that's 100 pounds per yard and is LARGE HEAVY RAIL INDEED! would be 

about 267 pounds; now I *buy* scrap at the scrapyard for 20 cents a pound which would be $53.33

[Frank Turley]

I once made a nice hatchet out of a portion of "switch track." It gave a good high carbon spark on the grinding wheel. With the blade hardened and tempered, it made a serviceable tool.

[Ridgewayforge]

Hm, you're right Thomas! my math is horrible. Allow me to appologize for my ignorance, and blame it heartily on the lack of coffee in my diet today.

[Gromgor]

I have absolutely no intention of trying to beat railroad track on a railroad track anvil. 

 

I simply cut an anvil off just because if you have some track, I figure you should get an anvil off of it. I mean, somebody can probably use it if I never do.

[Ridgewayforge]

That's a good attitude to have! One day you might end up teaching someone else to smith, and might very well be passing along the small track anvil to them! Good on ya for having the gumption to want to use the stuff you've got. Let us know how it turns out, we'd love to see what you make out of your prize.

[LastRonin]

One comment to you Gromgor... just because some of the responses were talking about making anvils/anvil tools, doesn't mean they weren't answering your question. The term 'stock' refers to base material used to make something. Anvils and tools are made from various 'stock'. I'm sure there are lots of things you could make from the track. I have heard of people making non-tool stuff from it, but the material itself seems to lend itself best to tooling. Like some other types of stock lend themselves best to making certain other types of items. So there should be no surprise or consternation over what has been suggested. Good luck with your progress and I hope to see more posts and even pictures of work you do.