Gotta Newbie ? For the Experienced Smiths

[3DistinctKnocks]

If there was a "Stupid Question" smiley I'd tag it for this.

 

Ok, so I'm thinking of using an old ceramic coated cast iron bathroom sink as a firepot on my first forge.  Its heavy as all get-out and the ceramic is in good shape with no cracks.  I'm thinking of building up the base and sides with clay, allowing an "air tube" with a cast iron grate to prevent coals from dropping into the air pipe.  The fuel for this home made forge will be wood charcoal, perhaps coal/coke if I can get my hands on some in the future.

 

So, my question for the experienced smiths is this:  Do you guys think this will work?  Does anyone have experience using an old cast iron sink for a firepot?  Or is this an idiotic idea? 

 

I've browsed the forum and couldn't find a thread on this, so I thought I'd start one.  Before I go off and start scraping together an unusable forge, I wanted to get ya'lls opinion.  I'm willing to learn.

[ThomasPowers]

OK you are wanting to heat the middle of a 3' bar in your forge---how are you going to do that?

 

I think the sink will be heavier and more unwieldy than needed.

[Marksnagel]

Actually this is a pretty good question. One I'd like to hear some different views on. I imagine someone somewhere has tried this. I mean if people can dig a hole in the ground and have that as their fire pot then I would say , why not.

 

If you build up the inside of the sink it should insulate it from the heat. I have thought about this myself but went with a brake drum forge instead.

 

I say give it a try and then if it works, you can be the resident expert on cast iron ceramic coated sink forges. If not, then you can tell us why it failed. But hang on for a little bit and see if anyone already has some experience with this.

 

While you are waiting, peruse the forums here to see if it has been mentioned and tried.

 

Good question.

 

Mark <><

[3DistinctKnocks]

Mr. Powers,

To answer your question, I would pile the charcoal or coal up around the middle of the bar.  Like I said, the sink itself would have clay built up to around 3-4 inches below the top of the sink for insulation.

[DSW]

I vaguely remember seeing an old article from Popular Mechanics  around 1941 that showed building a forge from an old iron sink.

 

 

http://igor.chudov.com/manuals/shop-forge.pdf

[Workhorse247365]

Its cast iron..idk but does everyone coat the inside of their cast iron pots...you might do better finding a cast iron floor drain sink they are the about the same size and shape as a commerical pot and they will have a drain hole in the center...you can hit up a plumber or just about everytown has that old man that has a bunch of plumbing fixtures out front for sale .find him.

[Workhorse247365]

Something like this...new its 55.00

[Charles R. Stevens]

Popular mechanics did do an article back in the day, they also revisited it just in the last few years.
As Tommas points out, your going to have to fill the sink near level, except for a deep bowl in the middle. Make the bowl about 8" deep and about the size of your two fists put to gether. A nice trick is to take a 2" pipe cap, drill a 3/4" hole in it and make your bowl a bit deeper to acomidate it. That way slag runs down beside it and wont pool on top of it. The advantage purported by PM is that a double bowl sink gives you a forge and slack tub in one unit.

[Marksnagel]

 Good idea Charles about the pipe cap. But what happens once the area around the raised cap fills up with ash. Won't the top of the cap become the level bottom of the fire pot rather quickly?

 

See. Look at all the good information that is coming from a question thought to be dumb.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Most of the time the blast blows out a good persetage of the ash. when you start, fish out the cap, open the ash dump and walla. Should clean out the forge before you lay a new fire anyway. Not my idea, but I shamelessly stole it. The first rendition I know of used a 2" solid with a 3/4 hole, then some smart @$$ went to the pipe cap. I've used pipe cap, some kind of fancy pipe fitting from the gas industry (scedual 80, about 8" long male pipe with a domed, closed end) and some god offull thick walled stuff they use in the oil field. 2" with a 5/8 wall.
Then I got smart and went side blast ;-)

[ThorsHammer82]

if you want it to be mobile at all I wouldn't use the sink. but if it's astationary unit with a hood and what not I don't see why it would be bad to use it. Especially since you're going to have to clay it to get a usable fire pot anyway.

[3DistinctKnocks]

The sink is from renovation on my dad's bathroom.  It was probably installed in the house in the mid 70's or so.  Not as squared-off as the one in Workhorse's pic.  More shallow, too.  Guys, this thread has turned out some pretty good ideas for me.  Thanks, Charles, Workhorse, DSW (for the link...its great!!), and of course Mr. Powers for the thoughtful question you posed.  I hope to see this grow a little to get even more ideas rolling. 

[K. Bryan Morgan]

Popular mechanics did do an article back in the day, they also revisited it just in the last few years.
As Tommas points out, your going to have to fill the sink near level, except for a deep bowl in the middle. Make the bowl about 8" deep and about the size of your two fists put to gether. A nice trick is to take a 2" pipe cap, drill a 3/4" hole in it and make your bowl a bit deeper to acomidate it. That way slag runs down beside it and wont pool on top of it. The advantage purported by PM is that a double bowl sink gives you a forge and slack tub in one unit.

 

 

Here's the updated article:  http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/how-to-plans/metalworking/4303543  This is totally doable.  You can use clay kitty litter, unscented with no additives, just get it damp enough to make a ball in your hand.  Let it dry thoroughly and get to work.  I used a break drum for a fire pot and that is also something you could add.  Put a piece of pipe through the drain and a floor flange then bolt to break drum.  Fill in with kitty litter.  Done.  Use a small cheap shopvac for blast and a lamp dimmer switch.  Mine is a slider type.  Its been sitting out in the weather for four years and never had a problem, so it will work.  I used black iron pipe for mine.  Your stand can be made of just about any material up to and including wood.  For mine I used metal 2x4s. '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>  Take pictures and post them.  Have fun.  And don't worry, you will burn metal.

[pete46]

I use an old kitchen sink [it's heavy].
I have clayed the bottom & use bituminous coal/charcoal.
It works great.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Shop vacc may be to much blast for charcoal. A cheep Walmart hair drier with the heating eliment disconnected might be enough. I've seen an old automotive heater blower in a cutdown coffee can. I added an old flore starter switch and a rheostat you have instant on off (deadman switch) and air control. (I used to be an automotive mechanic before reinventing my self as a farrier)

[3DistinctKnocks]

I may have a good source for old squirrel fan blades, the kind that goes into hospital room a/c units.  I'll probably rig one up in a wooden or sheet metal housing with an electric motor and dimmer switch for speed control. 

 

My proposed forge will be fairly stationary.  I've read in another thread that the kitty litter-to-clay thing is a god-awful mess to make and may not be wife (or cat) approved.  In fact, I'd probably wake up to find a xxxx in my boots if I used kitty litter.  I live in an area full of red clay, so I'll probably "go green" and use that.  If not, I can always come up with a cement mix that has some decent insulation properties. 

 

If I scrounge around a bit, I may even be able to come up with an old ceramic coated cast iron double kitchen sink.  One to use as the firepot/forge and the other bowl for quenching.  Seems like I saw one down in a gully behind the house once... 

[Glenn]

>The 55 Forge Blueprints are available. Click the link.

They are inexpensive, they are easy to make, and they work,

[K. Bryan Morgan]

Shop vacc may be to much blast for charcoal. A cheep Walmart hair drier with the heating eliment disconnected might be enough. I've seen an old automotive heater blower in a cutdown coffee can. I added an old flore starter switch and a rheostat you have instant on off (deadman switch) and air control. (I used to be an automotive mechanic before reinventing my self as a farrier)

 

Shop vac plus dimmer switch.  I have been using this for four years and it gives me very precise control.  In the picture link I provided I'm using charcoal.  I use coal now but it worked just fine for charcoal.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Thanks for the heads up Bryan.
3DK, I m actually a fan of Glenn's side blast 55 forge it wouldn't be hard to make it look like an alldays and onions

[3DistinctKnocks]

After checking out Glenn's link...I kinda like that.  For a little easy forging, I think I am going to set up the old bathroom sink.  For some "sho-'nuff" forge welding, I'll probably give the side blast 55 forge a go.

 

As a side note and in reference to the kitty litter clay, I stopped by the local auto parts store to pick up a new headlamp for my old '77 Chevy C-10 and saw a 50lb bag of generic oil-dry.  The stuff is 100% fuller's earth...go figure.  I might give that a shot for the clay lining.  The clerk said that its much finer grained than litter, so it might be a little easier to use for forge clay.  I've got to go back Monday and pick up a drive belt for my wife's car...might come home with a 50lb bag of clay, too.

[3DistinctKnocks]

I'll post some pics later tonight, but I thought I'd let ya'll know that I gave the "sink forge" a go today.  I didn't line it with clay or anything.  Using charcoal, it got so hot that I nearly burned up the end of a horse shoe I was heating and banging on.  I used a standard hair dryer (wife bought a new one recently) as a blower.  After using it on high, I decided to leave it on the low setting.  The heat was actually melting the ceramic off of the cast iron!  Gonna do a lot of tweaking to get it to where I want it to be, but this was only the first round.

 

Thanks for all the advise on this thread, guys!

[Charles R. Stevens]

Lol, might want to clay that baby, and buy your wife a new sewing machine. So you can have the foot reostat for the hair dryer.

[JimsShip]

I posted this same question when I first joined IFI, but my sink was a shallow double kitchen sink (I was hoping to use the second half for a quench tub) but I eventually went the 55 gal/ brake drum route before lucking out and finding a forge.
Sometimes simpler is better.