Black Frog Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I think that people should be limited to 10 of each tool of one type, and if they get more than that they should be delivered to areas that are tool-poor :P Wow, tool socialism! I have nothing against the guy collecting all those. I'd love to visit his collection in person. Good for him if that is his passion and he has the means for getting them. All those anvils are not going to melt, and they might someday be back in circulation down the road. No, he doesn't need all those anvils, but we don't need to have many, many items either. People don't need a Cadiallac Escalade when a car a fraction of the price would do the same thing just fine. People don't need a 5000 sq foot house for two people. People collect all sorts of things guitars, cars, drums, firearms, antique fishing gear, whatever..... Some people collect a great amount, and others marvel at the collection. When we starting drawing lines on what others "don't need", that is a path I do not like going down. ......I'm always on the lookout for anvils, hopefully finding a good deal. Do I need another one? Nope, not at all. But that hasn't stopped my anvil addiction. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Black Frog: Thank you. This area of research is know as Industrial Archeology. I am trying to save and record what was done in the past by this industry, so that it is not lost to the ages. If I had not knocked on the door of Crossley when I did and found the last of the original FISHER patterns, they would have been rotting in a landfill. It has been my passion for the past 15 years, and will be for the rest of my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Iron Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I knew I shouldn't have watched that video lol. Now I know why I can't find a single anvil that I want. People like him have them all! Now I understand for research, but on the same side research the piece. Heck take mold of it then send it back into the wild lol. My point being just because you CAN have that many. Doesn't mean you SHOULD. I guess I have to look at it this way. He is technically saving them from being melted down, and saving them from ever being used again lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Hyper Iron Please remember that this video is NOT of my museum. It is a collection in New Mexico that I have never seen in person nor met or know the principals involved. Eventually, all of the FISHERS in my collections will probably be sold. I hope that some of the complete series of anvils can be kept together. It has taken a long time to find all of the missing pieces, and there are still gaps that I hope to fill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I think that people should be limited to 10 of each tool of one type, and if they get more than that they should be delivered to areas that are tool-poor :P Josh I know I'm being extreme but that would mean that you should have no more than 10 spanners etc. and the rest should go to Africa?(where I could buy them) :D Many places are short af industrial equipment because "they/generic"elected to scrap them some time back. Personally I'm all for collectors in preference to recyclers(as in melting not reuse) so the short supply is sort of self inflicted. Guys like njanvilman do everyone a favour by also "creating demand" and thereby adding value to something the average guy sees as scrap and this in turn allows for many anvils to be "rescued from scrappiles" all over. Anything else he does(no disrespect) is just jam on top! BtW. That's a great collection wich must have taken buckets of time and effort and more than just a smidgen of readdies as well. Hats off to the man! Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua.M Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Wow, tool socialism! I have nothing against the guy collecting all those. I'd love to visit his collection in person. Good for him if that is his passion and he has the means for getting them. All those anvils are not going to melt, and they might someday be back in circulation down the road. No, he doesn't need all those anvils, but we don't need to have many, many items either. People don't need a Cadiallac Escalade when a car a fraction of the price would do the same thing just fine. People don't need a 5000 sq foot house for two people. People collect all sorts of things guitars, cars, drums, firearms, antique fishing gear, whatever..... Some people collect a great amount, and others marvel at the collection. When we starting drawing lines on what others "don't need", that is a path I do not like going down. ......I'm always on the lookout for anvils, hopefully finding a good deal. Do I need another one? Nope, not at all. But that hasn't stopped my anvil addiction. ;) That the phrase I was thinking! "Tool Socialism" I'm just looking for an excuse for him to have to send me some stuff! so don't screw up my logic! :P Black Frog: Thank you. This area of research is know as Industrial Archeology. I am trying to save and record what was done in the past by this industry, so that it is not lost to the ages. If I had not knocked on the door of Crossley when I did and found the last of the original FISHER patterns, they would have been rotting in a landfill. It has been my passion for the past 15 years, and will be for the rest of my life. NJ, I have NO issue with what you are doing, you are saving tools to catalog and record something important, you are not buying every anvil you possibly can I know I'm being extreme but that would mean that you should have no more than 10 spanners etc. and the rest should go to Africa?(where I could buy them) :D Many places are short af industrial equipment because "they/generic"elected to scrap them some time back. Personally I'm all for collectors in preference to recyclers(as in melting not reuse) so the short supply is sort of self inflicted. Guys like njanvilman do everyone a favour by also "creating demand" and thereby adding value to something the average guy sees as scrap and this in turn allows for many anvils to be "rescued from scrappiles" all over. Anything else he does(no disrespect) is just jam on top! BtW. That's a great collection wich must have taken buckets of time and effort and more than just a smidgen of readdies as well. Hats off to the man! Ian Again, I just want him to have to ship me stuff so shush ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Well I imagine from the opinions expressed, collections everywhere should start being sold off. Stamps, beer cans, guns (your allowed one long rifle, one shotgun and one handgun but no more) cars (this should include all vehicles), hit and miss engines, and yes even the collection of rocks and dirt from all 50 states. Do not forget the collection of your children's baby teeth, and your collection of books you refer to as a library. Do not forget that pile of rusty metal that you use as a resource center for your blacksmithing. Your neighbor says you do not need it or even a portion of it so off it goes. Seriously, these folks have to right to collect what ever their disposable income allows. If they want to miss a couple of meals or give up cigarettes to gain another anvil it should be their choice. It should also be your choice, but DID YOU give up a couple of meals or give up cigarettes? No reason to cast shadows on their passion. If you start right now, today, buy up every anvil you can find and in 20 years you can also fill a warehouse with anvils. The question is do you want to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Iron Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Yes I know that njanvilman. That's why I said I understand it for research. But that guy has piles and piles of tools. For what? To say he has them? Obviously money is not an object for him so it's not a business venture he is making. So I disagree with the "driving the market up" he is making it more expensive for his own addiction as well. As the old saying goes. He who has the most tools wins. That guy wins by a long shot lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 The only way to take them out of the anvil pool *FOREVER* is to destroy them. I own tools that were once in a museum. They were "deaccessioned". (for a laugh: when I heard the museum was goingo get rid of them I offered to buy them; but no they were going to donate them to another museum nearby---I later bought them at a local fleamarket for less than I had offered the museum!) Note that that collector's kinfolk run an implement auction about 2 miles from my shop---if the collection ever comes up for auction there folks are welcome to camp at my place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I hate to see anvils not being used, gives me the shivers BUT I have all the anvils I need, so I don't want any of them. However I have 2 post vices and would like at least 2 more. I would LOVE one of those industrial swage blocks, I've only ever seen one of them in person and can see 10000 jobs i could do with one. A cone mandel is not a necessity, but would make my life easier for certain jobs. I NEED a real workbench, I have one that is built from 2x4s but I need one heavier and larger than that, and non-flammable material would be nice. I think that people should be limited to 10 of each tool of one type, and if they get more than that they should be delivered to areas that are tool-poor :P Josh One post vise is not a collection. Two post vises are useful. More than that is a collection in some opinions. The industrial swage block is nothing more than many single swage blocks combined. Build the single swage block you need and be happy. That way you can do the job, get paid and use the money(s) to buy a industrial swage block. You can build a work table from wood and put a piece of 1/8 inch steel on top. If it needs heavier use 1/4 inch plate or 3/8 inch. At some point you will need to build a heavier bench to hold the plate. Then it is a matter of building a metal base. While all this is going on, you are making money using the wood and 1/8 inch plate table. Do not laugh as I used my 2x4 table with sheet metal top as a welding table, and general work table for years. It is still in use in another shop. Currently the work table beside my forge is 4x7 feet or so in size with a foot square hole in the center of the long side and toward the edge of the short side. It has a sliding gate so the hole can be closed if it is needed. I keep a trash can under the hole and sweep any dirt or scraps off the table and down the hole. The bottom is reinforced with channel on the edges and 4-5 places across the 7 foot span. It is stout. All it took to make it a work table were angle iron legs.Now if you look at the bottom, the work table looks very much like the tailgate of a dump truck, but I needed a work table so used the inside or smooth side of the piece. Holes have been drilled in the table to bolt down a vise, a bender and other tools. Several years later I drove over 5 hours one way to get an acorn. I got the money from the items make on the work table. Both are still in use today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Personally I like two postvises per work area, a large on and a small one so currently I have 2 in the armouring area; two out in the forge and another large on a roof supporting telephone pole for heavy work, + two for the travel set up and a couple of spares for the next forge expansion project I sold a 5" one to where I teach a smithing minicourse so now it's bolted into the building and I don't have to haul and mount one every time I teach there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Fisher King: you need a sheet brass crown with anvil protrusions with the various eagle trademakes laser cut on them...Just the thing for Quad-State! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I was just thinking if that had been my firearms collection of 30 years ago folks would have accused me of being crazy and a danger to society but since it's anvils there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Strange how we look differently on what is collected and not that something is collected or as they call it now "hoarding" like it is some kind of mental illness to have an interest in something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elemental Metal Creations Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Look out for falling iron! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Fisher King: you need a sheet brass crown with anvil protrusions with the various eagle trademakes laser cut on them...Just the thing for Quad-State! Sorry Tom, but I much too humble to do that. My shirt with the Fisher & Norris Museum logo will do. And this "Fisher King" is kind of childish. NjAnvilman will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5starhobo (blake) Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Wow. What a beautiful collection. Being a young smith, its hard to find tools because we have limited resources, but we get by! Heck its even harder to find them in this area too :P Im just happy to see them there, being taken care of, rather than going to a chinese metal yard.... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 And that brings to mind: has everyone talked with your local scrap guys, and given them a picture of typical blacksmithing tools with your phone number on it and that you buy such things? Also talk with the folks who drive around looking for scrap metal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Buchanan Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 no i'm not say its wrong to collect anything..... as i understand at the heart of this site we are here to share and learn. tools that are useable being hoarded drives up the price to average user... thats good and fine if your the seller(if your selling)... but to the end user, the price is raised to a point only very successful smiths or rich folks can afford to buy a quaility tool.... its also my feeling that anvils are very different thing, unlike other collectables,people make a living using these tools, unlike stamps or guns whatever.. anyway FISHER KING, making your collection open and usable to our community is a very cool thing.... collections walled off and hoarded not so much.... great that theyve been "saved" not so great they are hidden under a bushel basket...... greed and glutteny are a sin... and so is envy lol : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 If all the anvils held by collectors were suddenly released onto the market I doubt the price of anvils would drop drasticly. There a plenty of anvils available, just not cheap ones. I like seeing people post how they found a fantastic bargain on a valuable anvil here but don't wait for it to happen to you, just be ready to pounce if it does. Meanwhile save your money or make do with what you can afford because someone who really has the passion can make a silk purse ON a sows ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 About 100-200 years ago there were few used anvils. Because of the rural nature of the country, people had to do for themselves. Every town and farmer needed a blacksmith and anvil. Industry needed anvils. Folks started producing new anvils to fill the need. Those anvils were purchased NEW and years later are the used anvils on the market today. Let us say that the folks in NJ and in Az have 300 anvils each (just a number). They have purchased anvils in their area first then gone after choice anvils driving the distance and paying the money required to get the anvil. Taking 600 anvils off the US market is a small dent in the amount of anvils available. I would suggest that the scrappers would take that much in a year nation wide. The scrappers do not care they just want the weight and with a scrapper the anvils are gone forever.These two folks are making them available for viewing in a museum setting, AND at some point these anvils will reenter the market. If all used anvils were taken off the market, there would be several folks jumping in to manufacture and sell new anvils. In fact you can purchase several brands of NEW anvils in todays market. One I looked up was Made in the U.S.A., Cast entirely of H13 tool steel, (hot working impact steel), Heat treated to Rockwell C 50 – 55, Weight: @ 100 pounds and costs just over $800. At $8 an hour that is just over 2-1/2 weeks work. You are a blacksmith and can make and sell your product after work or on the weekends. Question is now bad do you want an anvil, and are you willing to work in order to get it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I wish that I could afford more of the FISHER anvils that I am missing from my collection. I have lost more on EBay and other sales and auctions than I have bought. Luckily, I have the means and location to have built my collection to what it is today. I am proud of what I have accomplished during the last 15 years. This has been a passion that has grown over time. Anyone can find an anvil out there. Craigslist, EBay, farm auctions, garage sales, and word of mouth will lead to many anvils and vises. Just have cash on hand and be ready to roll. I have transported anvils in the trunk of my Toyota Corolla, my trailer and my truck. And as Glenn noted, at some point in the future, most of the iron in my museum will re-enter the public realm. For now, come visit and marvel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Iron Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I'm not sure I've ever seen a museum pile their exhibits in one mass lump on the floor. I'm referring to the post vice pile. "Museum" that's a little far fetched. If you are buying your "exhibit" pieces up so fast that you simply don't have the time or just don't care to sort and catologe it. I don't see the real love for the tool there. More power to the man. If he has the means and the want. Then nothing should stop him. This is America after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper Iron Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I'm not referring to you njanvilman. Just to be clear. I am referring to the video only. I have never seen your museum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 I'm not sure I've ever seen a museum pile their exhibits in one mass lump on the floor. I'm referring to the post vice pile. "Museum" that's a little far fetched. If you are buying your "exhibit" pieces up so fast that you simply don't have the time or just don't care to sort and catologe it. I don't see the real love for the tool there. More power to the man. If he has the means and the want. Then nothing should stop him. This is America after all. I am not sure that the New Mexico collection has ever been refered to as a "Museum". I do, as I have everything set up on display in a logical viewing order. To see old photos of my setup, Google fisher museum, NJ. Somehow, I will get current photos to the net. The ones on there are over 6 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 A lot of museums have *tons* of un-catalogued items down in there storage areas. I see regular articles published about people finding new items in stuff collected in the 1930's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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