Eddie Mullins Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I'm about to start building shelf brackets for our home, 15 of them, and I want them to be fairly uniform so its time to make my first scroll jig, plus I need to get the boss's (read wife's) ok so had to make a drawing. I am starting from scratch here so I made a tracing starting first with the size of the bracket, and then using some wire to form the shape of the scroll to fit. I did this on a piece of plate I use to weld on so I could make use of magnets to hold things in place. Not sure of the proper technique, but this seems to be functional. BTW I plan to make the brackets out of 1" wide flat and the scroll out of 1/2" wide flat and welded in place. I'm open to critiques, suggestions and sources of info on others methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 That will work, but you may need two scrolling jigs, one for the small end, and one for the larger end, unless you want the same start size at each end, and there are some things to remember when making scrolling jigs 1) The jig is the inside of the drawn profile, and you have to take into consideration material thickness being used, width of bar is immaterial to finished profile. 2) The jig should have the centre part higher than the outer part so as to allow access when starting the scroll, and be capable of being firmly mounted to wherever you choose to make the scrolls 3) Any scrolls pulled on the jig should be heated before pulling around the jig, or they may not all be the same, and if not heated, will spring out when released, and not conform exactly to your jig. Do the small end first, Also make sure you have easy access to the hole position for the screws to be used for mounting the bracket to the wall and shelf. Have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 It might not matter, but I like the look of the smaller scroll. It has a pleasing appearance and negative shape. The larger one just doesn't look as pleasing to me. It looks a little fat in the middle, and doesn't curve as smoothly as the smaller one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Greetings Ed, John pretty well covered the jig thing.. I just wonder if 1/2 x 1In is a wise choice for your stock for that size scroll .. Have you tried a sample scroll in that size material??? 1/4 x 1 scrolls look sooooo good. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Emig Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I make a lot of scolls, and have a suggestion or so-no criticism intended-just some notes from a guy who learned the hard way. Material size- use at least 3/8", and 1/2 is better, and classically designed, the taper should start at the beginning of the curve of the scroll. Long, smooth tapers make a very graceful "light" look. When you look at classical scroll design (and you might not be going for the look) the "negative" space should increase as it spirals around-not be closer to the center as it goes around. The Cosira books (free on-line) have a great section on scrollwork. Once again, this is not criticism, just trying to be helpful. I had a very hard time learning scrollwork-being self taught I had a lousy teacher-and it took me a long time to get good at it. But, once you do some practice work, all of a sudden it becomes easy to make a nice scroll. Also, look at some of the "Golden Rectangle"stuff. Once you have the pattern made from that, it will fit almost any space-and look great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Greetings again Ed, I agree with mark 3/8 and half in. stock is best for most scrolls I suggested 1/4 based on the size of your drawing and the pencil... Do some test pieces first before you make jigs... Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Speaking of a classical taper to the scroll end- is there a general rule to the taper? For what I've been doing, I thought a general 6x the material thickness makes it pleasing to my eye. Am I in the ballpark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Mullins Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 Thanks for the suggestions and feedback, and have no fear of criticizing my efforts, its how I will learn. I think I may have created some confusion with my stock dimension comments. My thought was to use wider stock for the bracket with the scroll being narrower. For example 1" x 1/8" for the bracket and 1/2" x 1/8" for the scroll. Since I'm going to weld the scrolls (mig) I thought the narrower scroll would work better. These will be pretty light duty brackets so I thought the 1/8" would be adequate, I'm also trying to keep things simple right now, so hadn't really planned on tapering them :ph34r: . I could see where the thicker stock would be more visually appealing though, particularly if tapered . I'll have to make up a few different sizes to compare. I'll look for the book suggested, and I have seen the "Golden Rectangle" calculations some where, but got a little lost in it. I need to spend more time with understanding layouts or buy some more tie wire LOL . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdworks Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Looking forward to watching your progress! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Speaking of a classical taper to the scroll end- is there a general rule to the taper? For what I've been doing, I thought a general 6x the material thickness makes it pleasing to my eye. Am I in the ballpark? Depends on what type of scroll end you are making, generally speaking, as stated before, the longer the taper the more elegant the scroll, its all about proportions. If they look right they usually are right. Personally I don't like the Golden Mean for a scroll end, it just doesn't look right in most situations. To anyone starting scrolls, I would suggest just go ahead and play, and form one hot on the anvil using just hammer and eye. You will find that you produce a natural curve which is unique to yourself, and if done unconciously, it will be repeated. If you try to conciously form two to match, it can be quite difficult, without a jig you will need horns and bending forks and take an horrendous amount of time trying to achieve two the same. Scrolls really are a matter of practice, the CoSIRA books give excelent advice and are freely downloadable from here http://www.hct.ac.uk/Downloads/craftpublications.html The one most appropriate is the Wrought Ironwork, a manual of instruction for Craftsmen Part 1 page 15 on Have fun, it only gets better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Emig Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Just as a suggestion, you're a Blacksmith doing forgework-make the scrolls bigger (stockwise) than the commercially available stuff-you're making eye-candy-it should look stong, yet graceful. If you're going with lighter stock, the bracket could be 1/4x1-1/4, and the scrolls 3/8x3/4. The 1/8 is just too thin. If you use 1/4 for the brackets you can chamfer the edges with your hammer-it creates another line for light to play on. Another suggestion is rivet the scrolls on. It will be a nice clean look, and the rivets are more eye candy. It is not much more work-by the time you weld, grind and blend the welds, riveting is not much longer. Do it "production style". Figure your length of stock, make a test piece. Then do all the tapers on one end of the stock, then all the tapers on the other end, same with the scrolls. Take a look at the thread "Yard art" -I have some halfway decent scrolls in it-thick material-nice tapers. Just a suggestion-these are in your home-make it nice :) you'll be looking at them for a long time. I have some stuff in my place that I look at now and think "I should have......" And, when you make a nice piece your wife will be more understanding when you need more stuff to make nice stuff........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 If you try to conciously form two to match, it can be quite difficult, without a jig you will need horns and bending forks and take an horrendous amount of time trying to achieve two the same. Aint that the truth.... I'm doing a planter table right right now with many scrolls (20 or so). I decided to do them all freehand without a jig. Time consuming? Absolutely. But I wanted the practice, and great practice it is. I made the fist one slowly and carefully which I really liked the proportions, and then tried to make all the rest match that. A jig would have been much easier and way faster, but I can do that for the next project. You can learn a lot real fast by trying to match them all to a master, which was the point for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 ok I found the set of youtube vids I was looking for :) this gentleman has provided a very elegant system of laying out scrolls and making jigs to match said scrolls in a few very easy to understand videos. check out his forge welding vids too, also very informative. http://www.youtube.com/user/theironworkshop?feature=watch best of luck with the project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I know it is old but here is a great video on the subject and the The drawing I posted on an older thread. the dividers are great for the process http://www.woodworkingformeremortals.com/2011/03/phi-and-golden-rectangle.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 ok I found the set of youtube vids I was looking for :) this gentleman has provided a very elegant system of laying out scrolls and making jigs to match said scrolls in a few very easy to understand videos. check out his forge welding vids too, also very informative. http://www.youtube.com/user/theironworkshop?feature=watch best of luck with the project! Thank you for the link! This'll provide hours of happy viewing. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 it was shared with me so im glad I could keep it moving and share it with others :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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