Broke 100# LG frame

[Danny C]

I have a late model LG 100# serial # in the 1500's my blacksmith has been running this hammer for years but last month the main frame let go behind the hammer head, we have been welding for many years and this break is not going to weld, called Sid to try and find another frame but so far nothing. happened on this site while looking for another hammer and hoping some one can offer a lead on another 100#er, I also have an old style 100# LG that would make a parts machine if there is any interest that serial # is in the 900 if I remember right. 

[781]

There is a 100# hammer on eBay but at eBay price or just was

[ciladog]

It's broken right?  You can't break it more than as useless as it is now.  Get some nickel rods, tack it together, then gouge the opposite side out half way, pre-heat and weld it with a single pass.  Then turn it over and gouge the opposite side and do the same.  Keep turning form side to side until you fill up the gouges.  Cool it under welding blankets.  If it holds, you are in business.

[HWooldridge]

I fixed a 100lb cast iron LG ram that was broken in half by laying some steel plate on both sides across the break.  I used UTP cast iron rods and welded the plate to the cast iron in short 1-2" passes then peened the bead before laying the next pass.  I would seriously consider trying to repair the frame as finding another one will probably be a needle in a haystack.

[ironwolfforgeca]

How about a Pic so we can see the prolbim that can't be fixed ??

[Danny C]

I will try to get some pictures up in a couple of days, just pulled the hammer out  to the shop floor and stripped it down, the frame is in 4 pcs behind the slides, just barely attached at the bottom, cracked all the way around and across the bolt holes.  may try welding it, I have put some nasty cast back together with Rockmount rods  but don't know if I would trust it again, looking at it, I may machine  a new slide assy. clean up the frame and bolt it on, biggest problem I see with that, is getting the face true so it lines up again, not much room between the bolt holes and main frame, but just need a bit of clearance.  

[Frosty]

In who's estimate is it unweldable? Have you had it checked by a professional welding shop, one that welds cast iron? I note you say you weld all the time but that's not necessarily the same and I can't tell what kind of welding you do. Sure, you may have to take it apart, build an oven to preheat and postheat it but we're talking about some brick and a weed burner.

 

I don't know how many large castings I've seen with wrist wide repair welds. I find it hard, really hard to buy it's not weldable. What do you have to lose by trying? If it's actually hopeless it's scrap anyway. No?

 

If it's a time constraint and you just have to have a hammer running soonest I'd think it'd be worth your money to replace it AND repair it. You REALLY NEED a spare on hand.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Quebecblacksmith]

I'm a professional welder. I have learn the techniques to weld cast iron with smaw and oaw.

 

I'm agree with ciladog but you have to pre-heat and keep the welding zone hot during all the process (beetween each pass) and tempered down very slowly with

 

some  refractory material like. 50 celsius degrees on 1 hours to optimized the weld link.

 

If your not sure to do it, ask a professional welder, but don't expect him about some guarantees about the solidity of the work.

 

Because the cast iron is not destinated to be welded, it's only a repair and it's never done a good fusion beetween the rod material (smaw= ni-rod).

 

In time it will be crack again near to the link zone. Yes you don't have lot to lose in trying.

[Sweany]

Fab a new frame? Fabricating an LG frame from plate doesn't look too hard.

[peacock]

I know how to fix it but the process is a lot more typing than I want to do. if you want to talk to me send me a PM. The repair involves welding and renforceing with large angle iron.

[HWHII]

I repaired a Star Hammer frame a few years ago for a friend. I welded it up a described by ciladog. The casting was of very poor quality. So we reinforced it with two plates one on each side then drilled holes through the frame to secure it. The weld did crack again after sometime, but with the plates it stayed intack. He is still using it today.

[Danny C]

I thank all for the responses, started building the replacement bolt on slide last nite, hopefully it will work and solve the issue,
But would still like to find a good frame

Thank you
Lee Conatser Welding and Machine
Fabrication and repair of Ag equipment since 1962

[ThomasPowers]

Danny; what continent are you on?  Shipping a hammer frame overseas might cost more than getting a different hammer!

 

I've seen several "Frankenhammers" mended with large mending plates; but  the time and expense *may* be more than getting another hammer.  Sometimes frames come through a local auction but I have no idea if it's worth my while to check as I don't know WHERE you are at!

[Danny C]

Thomas our business is in central California, I have been looking at other hammers one a big blu in NM but my blacksmith wants to stay with the LG if at all possible, he is not dead in the water as our 50# runs tike a well oiled clock, just small for the work the 100 was doing, and like all top notch smitthys he is a fussy old fart, want to see him hit the roof turn his hammer backwards on the anvil, guarantee he will spit and bang.

Danny

[781]

Peacock is the man to talk to on repairing or tuning a hammer.

[Don Hanson]

Peacock is the man to talk to on repairing or tuning a hammer.

 

I know how to fix it but the process is a lot more typing than I want to do. if you want to talk to me send me a PM. The repair involves welding and renforceing with large angle iron.

 

He is the man. Danny, at least talk to Peacock about the repair.

 

As far as finding a frame, it ain't going to happen. If a frame is good, the rest of the hammer will be good and you'll be looking at a complete hammer.

 

That said, I love the 100 lb Little Giant! Have two of them and will not part with either. :)

[Timothy Miller]

Thomas our business is in central California, I have been looking at other hammers one a big blu in NM but my blacksmith wants to stay with the LG if at all possible, he is not dead in the water as our 50# runs tike a well oiled clock, just small for the work the 100 was doing, and like all top notch smitthys he is a fussy old fart, want to see him hit the roof turn his hammer backwards on the anvil, guarantee he will spit and bang.

Danny

I am a professional smith with a staff of 5.  I started out using mechanical hammers and switched to an air hammer.  I would never go back.  The air hammer is a more productive machine and gives the smith more control over hard and soft  blows.  I have a 65kg say mak air hammer.  Some mechanical hammers may hit slightly harder pound for pound but the lack in control.  If I was told I had to go back I would feel like I had taken a major step backward.  I love old machines but with the wide range of work I am forced take on in the new economy I need the versatility that an air hammer affords.   The only mechanical I would entertain using in my shop would be a Bradly compact.  Sometimes you have to overrule your staffs tastes and biases in the interest of over all health of the company. 

 

If I were going to repair it I would braze it then sister the frame with steel straps and plates.  Grind everything out use steel pins to hold everything together then fill in the root with braze.  You will have no pre/postheating issues and braze is easy to use.  Use good bolts and steel strapping to take up the slack. I have seen some very old repairs done this way and they held up well. 

[doc]

Tim ,

        I beg to differ, preheating and post heating are still required when brazing large castings. On smaller repairs it isn't considered necessary because it is naturally an inherent part of the process.  

[Timothy Miller]

Your right Doc but often preheating is part of the brazing process and there is less thermal shock because a torch is only heating up the cast iron to the 2000/1700 degree range where an arc is about 10,000 degrees at its working end the torch heat is more diffuse also.    I have repaired a bunch of cast iron stuff large and small.  Brazing always seemed to have less problems.  You just don't want the cast cool fast enough to convert into white cast iron.  I have never seen a brazed part crack from thermal shock. 

[Don Hanson]

Tim, I respect your opinion. But not everybody wants to progress toward air hammers. I've been running mechanicals for close to 20 years and have run a number of air hammers in other shops. Have also had several opportunities to get into air hammers, but just didn't want or need to. I even spent a week at Tom Clark's shop running air hammers, great hammers, but I like my Little Giants better! Tom was a great man and put his hammers in many shops, I almost got one... He is missed!

[Timothy Miller]

Don,  I am making the assumption that you forge mostly knives?  I would see nothing lacking in a 100 lb little giant to forge blades and billets. My hammer was $10,000 a reconditioned 100lb little giant runs about half that.  I could see how many would see my machine as unnecessary and overly expensive.   I run some fairly specialized tooling in my hammer.  Fullers butchers swages closed dies texturing tooling and more.  Since the bubble popped there has not been much in the way of forged ornamental work being done around me.  I have had to be extremely flexible to keep the doors open and my guys working.  You just don't have the height under the ram with a mechanical hammer to do all of the crazy work that comes in the door. I know this from experience I used to have a 75lb fairbanks I got real tired of adjusting the Pittman arm every time I wanted to forge thicker stock. I have seen modified mechanical hammers that worked as well as air hammers with longer arms and bigger springs and Bradlys and Beudries are very good hammers if you can find them. The reason we bought the hammer was not Tom Clark (god rest his soul)  it was strictly a business decision.  We wanted a hammer we could plug in and get to work and would present no limits in the size steel it was designed to forge.  If you are running a shop with a pay roll tools that don't require lots fixing and set up really add the the bottom line.

[dimenickel]

this is a good idea...  got a plasma cutter and some 1/2" plate...   cut it out and weld it up...   should be better than the original

 

Fab a new frame? Fabricating an LG frame from plate doesn't look too hard.

[Don Hanson]

Tim, yes mostly pattern welded steel ( fairly large billets) and blade work. I have a new style 100lb LG that I rebuilt and a brand new 'heavy' 100 lb from Sid. :)

 

I do agree that a good air hammer is more versitile when you don't know what kind of work is coming through the front door. But I personally need/want/like a hard hittin, fast mechanical for the type of work I do and I never have to adjust the pitman for die hight.

 

I will say if my first 100 LG hadn't have come along when it did back in 97, I would likely own one of Tom's hammers. Because my little 25 LG just wasn't enough hammer...

[peacock]

You may want to think about running a steel ram on  a steel guide that is not the best bearing combination. the steel on cast works great.  If I were to fab it up I would design some replaceable  bearing bronze wear strips in the face of the guide. 

[macbruce]

If the other parts are worthy of a makeover I'd look into a Japanese style frame.....You could maybe even cut the anvil free and use it. The angle of the dies could be a problem, or not......