herchammer Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 I have questions about fire-pots cast from refractory cement. Is this the proper forum for this, or should I post in the "Problems" forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 Generally you should post your question where it fits best. This would be the best place for this question. As to fire-pots cast from refractory cement let the answers begin here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted June 11, 2007 Share Posted June 11, 2007 one question, WHY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herchammer Posted June 11, 2007 Author Share Posted June 11, 2007 irnsrgn, the why is merely a question of alternatives to what I've seen. I would love to purchase a manufactured fire-pot, but I am interested in economical alternatives. I thought perhaps a refractory cement casting, or a refractory brick constructed fire-pot might be a viable alternative. Any thoughts on this? I have a brake drum from a large tractor, but I was really curious about the other possibilities.:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Murch Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Many a forge have been made from dirt and ashes. So refractory cement should work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Turner Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Should work fine just keep in mind castable refractory needs to be about 3" thick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Refractories have a tendency to crack from the temp swings in a forge; clinker will stick to it as well and need to be chipped off often a resulting in damage to the surface. Most folks weld up mild steel into firepots if they can't find a cast iron one. Firepots are a consumable in a forge. For my travel coal/charcoal forge my firepot is part of the axle cover from a 1937 banjo rear end---bought two made into jackstands and have been using the first one for 20 years now---have the second one as backup for when it wears out. (btw this is the forge I do most of my billet welding in...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnie Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I used a brake drum for a while. I got tired of watering to control the size of the fire. I fabricated a firepot out of 1/4" steel. It lasted about a year. I used a mud(fire clay,cement,sand) to form a funnel shape inside the brake drum. I've been using it this way for a couple of years. I have no complaints when I think about the price of a store bought firepot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 My forge has a shallow fire pot. I wanted a deeper fire. I set fire brick up around the pot like this [ ] with the air grate in the center. Using refractory cement I made a "duck's nest" going from the grate up to the sides of the fire brick for a depth of ~5 inches deep at the bricks. Then I made a fire and "fired" the refractory cement to harden it. Yes it cracked as it cured/hardened. I mixed up more refractory cement and filled the cracks and "re-fired" it. This refractory "duck's nest" or fire pot has lasted 5 years. It is now time for me to re-do the nest but I only used about 1/3 bag originally and saved the rest. The next few rebuilds are free and easy. Good luck DanL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I'm using a side blast, so I don't need a fire pot. I have a big tub of fines and ash, about 2' square and 1' deep. The bottom is lined with soft fire brick. I just shape the firepot I want out of the ash and water it down a bit so it stays put. Then forge in the middle of it all. Seems to work well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I made a fire pot from 1/4inch diamond plate steel, but I have no desire to frequently rebuild it so I built a water jacket underneath the fire pot and forge. The water jacket is 17" wide, 6" deep and extends for 36" with the last 6" going past the back of the forge. On the 6" that extends past the back, it is open on top and extends an extra 6" up, making a total of 12" in depth for the last 6". There is enough volume to use the forge all day and just top the water off the next day when I start again. I have been using this forge as a primary means of heat in a fulltime blacksmithing business for a year now without trouble. I had priced firepots, and it seemed like this design would be cheaper than a cast fire pot and easily fixable by myself. As a bonus it is an excellent humidifier for the shop in the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herchammer Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 Great information! I have much to consider now. I have neither the tools, nor the skill to weld up my own firepot, but I may have it done at a local fab shop. I had wondered about the firing of the refractory cement, and thought it might be a problem to control the temp to give it a slow enough rise. Thanks everyone, for the great feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feukair Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I made a fire pot from 1/4inch diamond plate steel, but I have no desire to frequently rebuild it so I built a water jacket underneath the fire pot and forge. The water jacket is 17" wide, 6" deep and extends for 36" with the last 6" going past the back of the forge. On the 6" that extends past the back, it is open on top and extends an extra 6" up, making a total of 12" in depth for the last 6". There is enough volume to use the forge all day and just top the water off the next day when I start again. I have been using this forge as a primary means of heat in a fulltime blacksmithing business for a year now without trouble. I had priced firepots, and it seemed like this design would be cheaper than a cast fire pot and easily fixable by myself. As a bonus it is an excellent humidifier for the shop in the winter. Hey Alwin... I'm not sure what you mean by a water jacket, is this basically a large tub of water that the firepot sits in to keep it cool on the outside while the forge is burning on the inside? Thanks, Lt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Feukair, Yeah, I think that is what he means. It's sorta the same thing the brits do, but they water jacket a side blast pipe, which sits in the fire, instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 It is like the water cooled side blast forges. The fire pot and the table around the firepot are cooled by being in constant contact with water that circulates underneath. You just have to keep the water level above the level of the forge table top, which is why you make the water tub to hold a large volume of water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strine Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I fashioned a wooden fire pot....let me finish!! which I had cast in cast iron. The cost was surprisingly affordable even for me. That was in about 1995 and it's still going strong. When you do it this way you have the opportunity to stick on your initials or a logo or something. This really impresses the beginners and they think you're some sort of God-like smith. Gee... a personalised fire pot! What a pity the accolade doesn't fit the reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Russell Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 For those of youse who ain't seen any of Mr Strine's work ava a chook at his pix in gallery , then tell us ifin " accolade doesn't fit the reality." Sorry mate , couldn't help meself ...... Dale Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herchammer Posted June 16, 2007 Author Share Posted June 16, 2007 O.K., I've decided against refractory cement casting. I was wondering, however, what you all feel is the best depth and overall dimension of your ideal fire-pot? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herchammer Posted June 16, 2007 Author Share Posted June 16, 2007 I did a search of existing threads and came up with some different thoughts on firepot dimensions. I would still welcome your thoughts, and input.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 There is no ideal forge much less an ideal firepot. I currently own 5 forges and each is ideal for certain tasks and terrible for others and I still have been known to dig a trench forge in the yard when I have a task that that is ideal for. I think that you will find that heating RR rail up in a forge designed for knifemaking will be less than ideal and heating a knife up in a forge designed for heating RR rail will also be lacking. So start by saying "This is what I plan to use it for; what is a good dimension for working with that?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herchammer Posted June 17, 2007 Author Share Posted June 17, 2007 Sound advice Mr. Powers, thank you. My initial projects will probably be fairly small in size as I practice the various skills, and techniques, that I pick up. I will keep future projects in mind, but as you say, I can build forges to specific purposes. Thanks to all of you who responded to my inquiries, I truly appreciate it. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.