SoCal Dave Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 A friend asked me to hard face an arena rake, (picture below). Borium is expensive and as you can see there are 48 tines on the comb portion and 17 tines in front of them sticking straight up and down. I have a 220 AC welder or MiG welder that I can use. How else could I hard face the tines so they don't wear out so fast. What type of rod or wire. Borium can run $50.00 a pound! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 yeah , borium is costly.....get some hard face electrodes, some of them look like borium when you're done, none look like drilltek which is outstanding , way better, and more effective, longer lasting, and cost even more..... but applied with a torch, worth the cost........ for the longevity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 This is a case when talking to your welding supply store counter folks can save you money. You need to know what size and type of rollers, liners and tips you have available for your MIG; you may need different consumables for flux core wire. Also, flux core wires for MIG tend to run fairly large, and require a machine with plenty of available power. This is a typical industrial practice, and the power supplies tend to be robust, and with a high duty cycle. You want a product rated for abrasion resistance, which every earthmoving machine uses, not impact resistance as would be used on a percussive drill face. Every wire company makes some sort of hardfacing, Stoody makes a whole catalog of hard facing products, which can be applied in any number of ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted December 24, 2012 Author Share Posted December 24, 2012 Thanks Larry H but for now money is a limiting factor. So, if I can do it for less, with a less expensive rod, my friend would be happy. Even though, I think in the long run, the drilltek or borium would give a much longer life span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Replace the spikes would probably be cheaper than the time and consumables of a trained weldor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted December 27, 2012 Author Share Posted December 27, 2012 My time would be donated since it would benefit the community. I am not a certified welder but have done a lot of Arc welding, not hardfacing. If someone knows of a welding rod that would be best for hardfacing mild steel, other than borium or drilltek, I would appreciate the suggestion. I have heard mentioned Lincoln Wearshied ME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 It's usually more about the pattern than the rod. I used to hard-face backhoe buckets and was trained to lay a cross-hatched, diamond pattern about an inch to two inches apart. The dirt packs into the openings and acts as the wear cushion rather than the steel taking the abrasive load. On this rake, I would be concerned that the teeth are high carbon and prone to breakage after welding - so I might weld one or two teeth and run it for a while to see how it performs. If they really are mild steel, then you can forgo the test and do all at one time. With regard to rod, you can run a high manganese rod and get good performance - but plain old 7018 works pretty well if you cross-hatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 If you are doing this on the cheap, do what Hollis says. ANY ROD will be better than mild steel, and a rod that is too brittle would probably just fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Are you sure the teeth are mild steel? Usually harrow teeth, plow points, coulters, disks, rakes are pretty high in carbon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Has a set of replacement wear parts been priced out VS materials + labor? It is possible that wear facing done properly will last significantly longer than the original material but that won't be known till it is put in service and used for a time. According to a brochure google handed me linked from Deere.com the tines on a "RA 1084 arena rake" are "high carbon" so preheat and post heat are probably necessary. It is probably better to remove the parts from the rake to do the necessary heating. Phi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 In my horseshoeing days, I applied lots of borium with an o/a torch, and it had tiny tungsten carbide nuggets within a mild steel rod. This resulted in a nubbly, grabby surface. I would not want to apply mild steel to high carbon steel and have a rough surface. It would result in a non productive mess.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countryforge Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 We had a small selection of hard facing rods given to us we used them on our cultivator, used different patterns and marked on a piece of paper which ones we used and where At the end of the season we went back and found out which ones worked best Stoody 36 was by far the best some welds just fell off from the impact of the stones some wore off but the Stoody held out the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 I talked to my welding supplier, and he said Stoody 35 should do the trick. Anyone with experience with that rod? Any tips on using that rod? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 T 11 Steel is Awesome make a patten from one of the tines and cut them out . as for the rods Run them @ a low temp range at the point the rod will not stick the deposit in the steel will build nicely and make a good weld . Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I have run a fare amount of this rod. Don't get hung up making a pretty weld. It does not have the best bead apperance. Keep it flat and like Sam says run it on the low end. The heat will build up in the part. Your just making a pad of beads keeping your weld centered on the toe of the weld before it. Keep your head out of the plume! Nasty stuff it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbillysmith Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I recommend hard facing write for your mig as i do not know of any surfacing rods that run acceptably on AC current. Lincoln makes a wonderful array of surfacing electrodes for different specific applications (ie; impact resistant, wear resistant, impact and wear resistant, etc). With most surfacing electrodes, you can only make 1-3 layers with as it start to crack out so be sure to build up any surface with standard wire and GRIND TO SHAPE FIRST.... I can't stress that enough. You do NOT want to be the guy grinding a hard surfacing layer, you'll be burning up grinding disks and dust masks fast as you can blink. When they call it "hard surfacing" they mean it, that stuff is no joke! Trust me, i learned the hard way and it only took once to remember that lesson...... All in all; prep first, and always follow manufacturers' spec on layering and polarity. -Hillbilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Is there any specific pattern that is better when hardfacing. I was going to just run straight root passes with some overlapping of the welded edges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermit Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Lincoln has "wearshield ME" that I use. Once it's on, you can't drill it or grind it. It works nicely. Tell your friend that nothing is free and if he wants it done, he has to pay for it. Since you're his friend, im assuming you won't be charging him labor. I think that is a HUGE discount already! He can't expect you to fork out the cash to purchase the hard facing rods now, can he???? $92. Gets you 10lbs of 1/8" rod of Lincoln Wearshield ME. It's gonna cost your buddy about a hundred bucks to pay for the rod if you give him free labor. Here's where you can buy it:https://weldingsupply.securesites.net/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?Next::1:UNDEF:OR:ED023323 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbillysmith Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Running pattern with hard surfacing is solely dependent upon the task you are wishing to accomplish (for example; the pattern on the blade of a front end loader bucket is going to be different than that of a roller at a steel mill)... I am uncertain of the propose behind the implement you want to surface..... If you elaborate on its intended purpose then I/we will be able to help you figure what pattern (if any required) would be best. -Hillbilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 The rake is dragged from a tractor to groom 6 arena's twice a week. There is a picture of the rake included in my first post here and I will be working on the comb that makes the final groves in the arenas. The arena's are a combination of sand and decomposed granite. I'm not sure of the ratio. The rake has been in use for about one year and has warn through one comb already. I have a brand new comb that I want to hardface. To best describe the pattern I was going to use on hardfacing the comb, assume the teeth of the comb is like a triangle. Starting at the tip and proceed along the sides up to where the sand no longer touches the comb. Run passes straight from the tip to the base or the long axis. Each pass would be run next to the last with a little overlap, but not on top of a previous pass. If you know of a better pattern, please feel free to advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbillysmith Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Sounds like the pattern you had in mind will work just fine. I would just be sure to run the beads parallel with the travel of the sand and you should have it. You'll want an "abrasion specific" surfacing rod. I'm unsure of your location (as to what distributors you have in your area) but Airgas has a wonderful assortment. Best of luck, post pictures. -Hillbilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Sounds like the pattern you had in mind will work just fine. I would just be sure to run the beads parallel with the travel of the sand and you should have it. You'll want an "abrasion specific" surfacing rod. I'm unsure of your location (as to what distributors you have in your area) but Airgas has a wonderful assortment. Best of luck, post pictures. -Hillbilly Agreed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Thanks guys. Airgas is near me and they recommended Stoody. I'm not sure what number, but I indicated an abrasive designed rod. Of course, they could order any brand they want. I will report when I 've completed the hardfacing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gaddis Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 In our part of the world those points are welded in place on many farm tools referred to as harrows or do-alls or drags. I think the idea of Mr Powers is correct: replace the points. Anyone putting a shank that dimension into a granite based soil mixture for 6 arenas 2 times a week should accept the fact that depletion is a factor. He should consider purchasing an additional drag unit so that one could be in the repair shop at convenient timing schedules. Most of those drags are quite in-expensive here in Mississippi. But everything costs more on the Left Coast. Carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Dave Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 I ordered some Stoody 35 rod. It is designed for "metal to earth" type of abrasion. Perfect for my needs. One of the many pins that sticks in the sand to first break it up has one year of use and has ground off almost 1 1/2" of metal in comparison to a new pin. I was shocked how abrasive sand can be on metal. These pins will also need hardfacing. Two new combs have been purchased, and one of them is on the arena rake already. I did check the ware, and fortunately, only the paint has worn off. This has also given me a good idea of where I must apply the hardfacing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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