TechnicusJoe Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 A few weeks ago I came in contact with a Belgian carpenter who was searching for a smith that could make a tool for his tool collection: a holdfast. He tried a few smiths in Belgium, but found they were too expensive and/or didn't even reply back. So, after going through a few forums, this carpenter found me. He made the request and we discussed the design. I then sent him a quotation and it was a deal. What I am making now is a big holdfast made out of 1 inch square stock. Upsetting the stock for the bend. Doing the bend. Some more upsetting. And some shaping. The holdfast is not done yet, but close. It need some more forming and small adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K. Bryan Morgan Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Very nice corner. I gotta try that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Looks like Roubo style holdfast. Massive piece of iron. Chris S. at Lost Art Press commissioned one a little while back. http://blog.lostartpress.com/2012/03/28/the-floor-shook-a-little/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 As a woodworker and a smith I think that your design is much too heavy especially at the top. To hold properly the holdfast needs some flex. It should be sprung into position. Yours is so stout that it will have almost no spring and so will not hold fast (IMO). A bit of slop in the fit to the bench holes is also needed so that the holdfast can wedge on a diagonal there. If it is only for a collection you might be okay though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechnicusJoe Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 As a woodworker and a smith I think that your design is much too heavy especially at the top. To hold properly the holdfast needs some flex. It should be sprung into position. Yours is so stout that it will have almost no spring and so will not hold fast (IMO). A bit of slop in the fit to the bench holes is also needed so that the holdfast can wedge on a diagonal there. If it is only for a collection you might be okay though. I beg to differ. I'll let this video do the talking for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raselei Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 As a carpenter and a soon to be smith, I've seen holdfast designs using both styles. A big heavy wedge type works just fine if that is the application that the buyer is looking for. Long as that is what the customer requested, there should be no issues at all with this piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Note that in the video the holdfast is drawn longer and much thinner than the one that you made. There IS a reason! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Here's a video from the Woodwright's shop where they make a Roubo and other types of hold-fasts. Considering the thick cross-section of the "thin" portion of so large a hold-fast, I don't see there being any appreciable flex in the steel from a single wallop with the mallet.http://video.pbs.org/video/2292087803/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big-D Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Here's a cheesey cell phone picture of the kind we made at Colonial Williamsburg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 A tool like this is strongly affected by fairly subtle design factors. I really like the one that Big-D posted! A firm hold yet nice flex. There is just some real and IMPORTANT differences in the one that Technicus made and the Peter Wright version. I am not putting you down Joe. I want to help you make them better! To do it very well requires close attention to detail and testing is also very important. I have known smiths to make holdfasts that were not usable. Usually they were able to tweak them by lengthening the short leg and thinning it enough to give a little flex. Another common mistake is to fit them so closely to the hole size that they will not grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big-D Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 A tool like this is strongly affected by fairly subtle design factors. I really like the one that Big-D posted! A firm hold yet nice flex. There is just some real and IMPORTANT differences in the one that Technicus made and the Peter Wright version. I am not putting you down Joe. I want to help you make them better! To do it very well requires close attention to detail and testing is also very important. I have known smiths to make holdfasts that were not usable. Usually they were able to tweak them by lengthening the short leg and thinning it enough to give a little flex. Another common mistake is to fit them so closely to the hole size that they will not grip. I think you meant "Peter Ross". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua.M Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I believe that Joe is a good enough smith to make sure he tests the tool before he received payment for it. And if the tool is not to the standard the carpenter wants, he will either remake it or edit it to the customers satisfaction. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 very nice Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 that is one sweet Holdfast showed it to my Neighbor (big mistake for me ) now he wants a few of them he has done wood working for well over 40 + years he wants short ones and a few longer ones .thank you for the show not the work I have to do now ;) Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 A nicely done upset corner is always a pleasure to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Well made, no doubt, but I'm with bigfootnampa in re' the size. I've made a few of these for woodworking and a couple for use in my anvils; being an amateur each one needed 'adjusting' to get it to work properly, some more than others... The largest woodwoking one was from 3/4" (18mm) round stock and - until I'd altered the neck to allow significantly more flex - a hit on it did nothing more than enlarge (i.e. damage) the top of the bench-hole. It certainly held the wood, but it held not using its own flexability, but solely by being wedged / cammed / jammed in the bech-hole. Looking at the photo' of the one Joe has made, my concern would be that - being (or at least looking) too rigid in the neck - it might well do to bench-holes just what my large one did (and for which there is a pretty well known term not suitable for a public forum like this!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Lodge Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Here's a video from Peter Ross where he created hold fasts for the Woodwrights TV program. http://video.pbs.org/video/2292087803 Looks good Joe. How does it work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 GNJC has made a good point - enlarging the bench hole isn't good. It's an interesting balance between large enough to fit right and flexible enough to be useful. Don't forget bench dogs. Lots of planing is done with a hold fast and a bench dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Lea (AKA 99pppo) Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 A few weeks ago I came in contact with a Belgian carpenter who was searching for a smith that could make a tool for his tool collection: a holdfast. He tried a few smiths in Belgium, but found they were too expensive and/or didn't even reply back. So, after going through a few forums, this carpenter found me. He made the request and we discussed the design. I then sent him a quotation and it was a deal. What I am making now is a big holdfast made out of 1 inch square stock. Upsetting the stock for the bend. Doing the bend. Some more upsetting. And some shaping. The holdfast is not done yet, but close. It need some more forming and small adjustments. Very cool project you have there! It already looks like it will work great when it is finished! I specially like the 90° corner and the very vivid looking tail, you managed to make very clean. Good sucsess with the further work on that! - Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gaddis Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I think you created a very good piece of equiptment, regardless of some of the negativeness expressed. In fact you have inspirred me into making some for myself and others. Perhaps they would make good items for Iron in the Hat at the club meetings. I am thinking on using 5160 about 3/4 inch thick so that it will accomodate most anvils. Carry on...............Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Dear Blacksmiths, Quite funny how I stumbled upon this tread by accident. Browsing for more holdfast designs I recognized the pictures and thought, 'this looks quite similar to what I have ordered'. I must say that I have been very pleased with the professional service of T.Joe and his ability to work to the specific requirements I have asked for. We have been in constant dialogue true the whole design/forge process. I have had a lot of tools custom forged to my own specs in the past and dare to say I am quite particular in what I want. So far I have not been let down by T.Joe. It is indeed always a big question wether the holdfast will perform the way it should but so far everything looks good and I am sure that if there is anything that needs to be adjusted he will happily do that. I will post a review of the tool here after I had the chance to work with it for a while and let you all know how it performs under demanding situations. 'The Belgian Carpenter' aka client. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechnicusJoe Posted December 10, 2012 Author Share Posted December 10, 2012 After some discussion in the thread and with Mathieu, the Belgian carpenter, aka client, we decided to thin out the arc more so it will flex more. This should only be benefitial and add some nice esthectics aswell. I have never made a hold fast before, so this is a pretty big experiment for me to found out what works the best and what adds nice esthetics. But the main goal is functionality. The hold fast is not done yet, this is still the rough forging. After I am satisfied with the arc and Mathieu too, I will clean it up and file the remaining parts that need work. Here are a few pictures for the update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gaddis Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I made one of these things last week in a hurry...so without any pictures. My version was quite long at the arm position with a bit more expanded goose neck. Man that thing would hold down the moon but it was butt ugly. So last night I went out to make a more proper replacement, It had a more pleasing shape on the gooseneck and not quite as long of working reach. It looked nice to me...but it will not hold anything! Point being, as stated by the gentleman from Missouri, the neck should be quite springy and long so that the binding in the hardy hole and tension by the springy neck ...well..it will work that way! Carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 that looks great joe - i know your not so concerned with the aesthetics but it does Look Great! it sounds also, like youve got fab communication with your client, and all will be well. i will be interested to hear about the springyness etc when your done. the forging looks very cool :) nice one!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Hi TJ, looking at your latest pics, I would think you need to curve the location pad area a little more to prevent it from galling the workpiece when in use, it looks like it may dig in upon release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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